School detention for forgetting a ruler?

[Wizardo]

Just interested - how many people have secondary school aged kids whose school gives a detention for forgetting basic equipment like a ruler?

I wonder does it really teach kids to be organised. Surely it just means disorganised people get lots of detentions? And feeds anxiety?

My schooling in the 90s felt pretty strict but this seems borderline bonkers. My dd currently “can’t borrow a school library book for the rest of the year” as she’s so anxious about getting a detention because she handed her last book in two weeks late. So now we are visiting our local library instead to provide her with books to read! I have obviously told her to just get the detention over and done with but she is adamant and determined to avoid it.

vote Yabu for No detention given
and Yanbu for Detention given.

My kids school is bloody ridiculous right now. They would be in reflection for a forgotten ruler. They would spend a lesson plus break/lunch in an isolated reflection room where they work from a booklet that has nothing to do with the current curriculum. Every reflection goes against their attendance too. My daughter was suspended today for refusing to put her wet jumper in her bag 🤦🏻‍♀️

The rules are so ridiculous these days I'm homeschooling my son in September rather than make him suffer. My daughter doesn't have long left thankfully.

It is funny seeing adults getting so worked up about detentions. It seems like an atavistic memory from their own childhood.

I am always amazed that the threat of detention even works so well on children. It is half an hour sitting in a warm classroom normally allowed to get on with prep (some behaviour detentions are more retributive, but most organisation detentions aren’t).

As I have frequently explained to pupils, and many times to my own children, they just aren’t worth getting worked up over. And for those who say adults aren’t ‘punished’ for forgetting stuff, I suspect that most adults who forgot work equipment time after time, the consequences would be more severe than a detention.

Also, assuming you are not on the breadline, parents should just make sure to have plenty of equipment at home. I just have a cupboard of school stuff, including all the geometry equipment, flash cards, cheap pens etc and my sons just help themselves. At this point, it really is up to them to take responsibility.

But, where I agree, the best response to a pupil who genuinely forgets once is just to lend them something and not to penalise them. It is the frequent flyers who need penalising/supporting depending on the reasons.

I think teachers need to be trusted with this judgment-but there is precious little respect for teachers from many on here.

So she forgot the book 10 times? Yeah that's detention worthy.

When you are a teenager and are told that detention/isolation is marked in your permanent record and could impact your future, of course they worry. Teenagers worry about everything, you're told your SATs and GCSEs mean absolutely everything and if you fail your future chances are down the drain, there is so much pressure on young minds I just don't think it's fair.

Teachers have such a tough job, it should be seen as a vocation and be a respected profession - teachers shape young minds. The teachers I had stopped me spiralling at that age, and it wasn't giving me detention that helped me, it was kindness, empathy and to be given a break from the crippling anxiety I felt all the time.

where is this figure from?

I had a pretty rough upbringing but always managed to pack my bag the night before? In fact as I had a rough upbringing, I took care of the few stationery items I had to make sure I had them for school.

Also, doesn't every kid have a phone, where they can set alerts to remind them of things?

Sure, everyone does it once of twice but forgetting your library book everyday for two weeks or not brining a ruler 5 times does just seem careless and is disruptive to the class. As everyone has pointed out, what if every kid had this approach?!

When you are a teenager and are told that detention/isolation is marked in your permanent record and could impact your future . . .

I was told this when I giggled in assemble when I was 15. It's an absolute lie. I was quite savvy and knew it was bollocks even at the time. I got a detention for asking 'why would a future employer care that I laughed in assembly in 1989?'.

Why are teachers allowed to tell these lies? My son was told last term that his one day exclusion for playing 'trip each other up' games would be put on his record for life. What absolute rubbish.

I'd love to see my non existent record for life 😂

@thebillcollector ,

I suspect exclusions may well go on your record, they are not insignificant.

What effect they will have is debatable, but they shouldn’t be taken lightly (unlike detentions).

Fixed term suspensions and permanent exclusions do go on your school record

It's funny how some kids always forget pens, books, rulers etc but somehow remember their phones everyday 🙄

Your school record is only kept until you are 25 though.

But colleges will see the school report, which kid do you think they will take on. The kid with isolations and suspensions or the one without them? My kid is currently having college interviews, they also see the number of detentions. Thankfully my kid has a complete clean slate. The same cannot be said for many others in his year.

The figure is from the ONS

It doesn't take a huge amount of empathy to understand that if you were physically assaulted the night before that your ruler might not be at the top of your mind when packing your bag

And if you were beaten five times you might forget it five times

It's funny how some adults appear to lack even basic common sense and empathy.

Agreed

I have absolute support for going with teacher's judgement and being sensible about one off Vs repeat but that's not what is now happening in my DDs school.

Teachers are instructed to give an after school detention for every slip up and forgotten item.

To whoever glibly said 'little Jonny should just remember his pencil case' I'm not disputing that yes of course kids need to learn organisation and not be forgetful but who thinks it's appropriate that forgetting a pan op case one day means you are taken out of lessons and put in isolation the next day??! It's bonkers.

Just to add in addition to the point a poster has already made to this comment

Unless you can provide data on this, this is just an assumption you are making that the forgetful kids dont forget their phones

The school dont care if they have phones, in fact some would probably prefer it if they didnt, so they aren't giving them detentions for not having them.

And Ive seen plenty of posts on here over the years about kids going out having left their phone behind

So yes, its probably true that some of the forgetful kids do remember their phones, but it's also possibly true that the kids forgetting their ruler one day because they have executive disfunction forget their phone another day

Your comments on this thread make it obvious it is not what you want though. You are clearly not backing your child's school and arguing each point.

Some school rules do seem silly as a parent dealing with 1 child at a time. They are not at all silly when dealing with 100's of children at a time.

Couldn't help myself laughing this morning! A client came in for a meeting who is a teacher running a self employed side line. After pleasantries, next thing she said was could she borrow a pen and some paper to take notes as she'd forgotten to bring them! I think she thought I was having some kind of medical episode as I was trying so hard not to burst into laughter thinking about this thread!

So what should I have done? Give her a pen and paper like a normal human being, or should I have given her a detention, told her to stand on the naughty step or in the naughty corner? Maybe reported her to HMRC to put on some imaginary non existent record for life?

I had another uncontrollable laughing fit a few minutes later when I remembered about how schools claim to prepare their pupils for adult life by imposing these ridiculous rules and disciplines. By the way, despite it being a professional business meeting, she arrived in flip flops, torn jeans and a T shirt - I don't think that's the kind of "business attire" that schools claim are worn in business/professional environments as the justification for imposing draconian uniform rules!

@dimllaishebiaith

The school dont care if they have phones, in fact some would probably prefer it if they didnt, so they aren't giving them detentions for not having them.

My son's school viewed forgetting a phone as being a serious transgression as they did so much on the phones, even during lessons, such as logging onto apps, taking photos of science experiments, taking photos of the smart board, etc.

Funnily enough they never seemed remotely bothered about forgetting stationery - certainly my son never mentioned any problems when he found he had something missing - he'd just come home, and either mention it if it was something "special" missing like a compass or protractor, or otherwise would just go to the drawer and pick some more pens, pencils or a ruler. Even when he forgot an exercise book, he'd just write up the class notes on paper supplied by the teacher or in the back of another exercise book and then write up to the proper exercise book in the evening. No dramas at all!

Colleges take on loads of kids with poor school records. They have to or otherwise what are teenagers supposed to do, as they are supposed to be in education or training until the age of 18?

And loads of them do better post 16 being treated like an adult and having more choice that college affords. Me for one. I'd had enough of school and being talked down to, shouted at and patronised by a selection of rather pathetic examples of adult human beings by aged 14 really.

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck how does it make sense to give a detention for wearing grey socks for PE instead of white? First offence. I don't get it.

My concern is that these draconian behaviour policies are creating toxic environments that is damaging learning. Kids are so stressed and scared about forgetting things, that's what they concentrate on, not learning. It's killing any love of learning and making them hate school.

I think this is a very valid concern for parents to raise, especially when the behaviour policy was changed over the summer holiday and wasn't in place when parents chose the school.

It's becoming adversarial with the school because they are refusing to listen to parent concern or provide any evidence that it is a successful approach.

I have empathy, I have empathy for the teachers and other students who are being constantly interrupted every lesson by kids forgetting things and disputing the lesson to ask for things. The students who despite forgetting equipment disturb lessons by phone usage.

@TThinkAboutItTomorrow

Whose fault is it a child has the wrong colour socks? The school? The child? Or the parent?

So instead of arguing against the school, why not buy your child the correct colour socks and support the school!

The issue is, grey/white socks isn't a problem. And for 1 child it doesn't matter. But when 1 child gets away with something, others decide to push the boundaries too. And a white sock gradually transitions to Rick and Morty socks or socks with swear words or something else inappropriate. The school tries to sanction the child with rick and morty socks and the parent comes back with "but it doesn't say that in the rules!". School then has to decide, do we let it be a free for all? Or do we write explicitly that only grey socks should be worn. And to implement any new rule, it needs to be done to the letter initially to get the message across because children are known for pushing boundaries.

Yes, this happens. I had a parent screaming last year that it doesn't explicitly say in the school rules you cannot have bright blue hair.

Thankgod the colleges my kid has selected are more selective about who they take. My kid has a right not to be constantly disrupted during his college years. He needs to get away from that so he can finally learn in peace.