To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

Last week on my train a child of about 5 spotted my bag of cookies and whispered to his mum, who proceded to tell him 'well ask the lady if you can have one then'! And yes, he did. And yes I did. 😂

That's not really the point of what I was trying to show.

Individual parents can/do (as you say) choose tools from different approaches based on the situation and context. I don't think most people IRL would rigidly follow any kind of "parenting style".

But if you're a parenting expert or educator proposing a particular philosophy, or a researcher trying to find out if something is effective/harmful/safe/causes a particular outcome, then it is useful if there is an overarching theory or an agreed-upon definition behind the whole thing - that way people saying well OK, I'm going to try X approach, have something to refer back to, troubleshoot if it's not working etc - and people can openly critique/push back/build upon it etc. There's also a clear definition of whether someone is actually doing it properly or not, so you can have a meaningful discussion around whether X approach works, in what context, for what child/situation/behaviours etc.

And TBH probably for the majority of parents especially if you have NT children it doesn't really matter exactly what you do and you can just muddle through without having to think about things too much. So probably in that scenario the exact label doesn't matter anyway.

But as the situation currently stands because all the examples in my post are real examples of different approaches that people call "gentle parenting" you can see it's impossible to do research on it to say whether it's effective/harmful/etc and if someone says "I do gentle parenting" they might as well be saying "I do flibbertigee parenting" because it is about that useful as a phrase to communicate what they mean to others. They are likely using it as a shorthand to mean (whatever they think it means), but that doesn't work if the other person doesn't have the same definition as they do.

So when you have a conversation like the OP saying "My friend does X and says it's gentle parenting, gentle parenting must be a load of rubbish!" and loads of people insist that the friend is "doing gentle parenting wrong" they are both right and both wrong, because there is no agreed-upon definition of gentle parenting it is an ever moving goalpost, you can't do it wrong because there is no actual method to follow, but you can also never criticise it either. In fact someone gave a really good description of it being "magical unicorn parenting" because the definition shifts all the time so anything that sounds good is suddenly "gentle parenting" and anything that causes harm "well that's not REAL gentle parenting" so you can never live up to it anyway.

Also I think it is divisive, because if you've bought into a label of "I'm doing gentle parenting" then necessarily that is because you think it is different from some other kind of parenting (whether that's behaviourism, or the way your parents did things, or some imaginary idea of a rigid parenting style, or the word "time out", or dismissing feelings, etc etc) then you're likely to dismiss things out of hand which might actually be helpful, or use it as a reason to sneer at other parents, which is unhelpful. (This goes both ways I think).

I agree. We coddle parents so much and it's the kids that suffer.

(This goes both ways - I grew up in an authoritarian household and my parents were abusive, but plenty of people shrugged and said they were "doing their best". It's a total cop-out.)

My Apologies, I meant to say partially raw. It just looked totally raw. The food would still have required chewing before swallowing if consumed by an adult. The babies around 6-8 months were literally sucking on softened strips of carrot, cucumber & brocoli etc until bits broke off. All very healthy but I couldn't watch. Food should be mush untill they have enough teeth to chew properly and they are old enough not to stuff loads into their mouths at one time. As for leaving them to eat on their own like this without constant supervision 🤦‍♀️

Currently I am a SAHM but I have been a retail worker, a graphic designer and an English teacher abroad.

It's not a professional interest although I would absolutely love it to be and am looking to train as something in this direction, possibly occupational therapy if I can meet the language requirement. Mostly this is just me having ADHD and obsessively researching anything I'm interested in or don't understand. I have 2 out of 3 DC who have had challenging behaviour (one of whom is now a v lovely teenager) and I've tried various things with them plus I have this irritating tendency to be excited by the newest/most controversial/outlandish/idealistic ideas and read everything I can get my hands on plus now I have discovered online lectures, courses, webinars and podcasts I have even more material. I've mostly sworn off the FB groups now because they end up so batshit crazy but there are a few I am still in.

I've always been interested in psychology, child development and parenting approaches even before I had DC. I got interested in different behaviour management theories when DS1 was little and noticed that a lot of what people labelled "gentle parenting" was based on techniques that were used with SEN children - I started looking more into a lot of the SEN theory recently after suspecting DS2 probably has some SEN.

I'm not sure it's the language that's problematic but the lack of boundaries.
'Put that stick down please' for first warning. If they don't then 'Mummy is taking the stick now because it's dangerous and you might hurt someone with it.' While taking the stick. That's the boundary. There's nothing wrong with communicating with empathy but it has to be coupled with boundary setting. What's problematic is asking them to do something 10 times and them then having no consequences when they ignore you/ do the opposite.

But that is gentle. Gentle parenting is not feral non parenting.

I think we are saying the same thing @Chickenkeev - saying things gently/ with empathy is fine as long as you're also parenting/ putting boundaries in place. I think the idea of 'gentle parenting' has been misunderstood basically

This kind of "gentle" parenting is guaranteed to raise children who are as far from gentle as you can get.

One nearly 4 year old girl I know is left to do as she pleases. The parents either turn a blind eye or address her bad behaviour with "oh my love don't do that" or "darling that's not nice" but not actually doing anything about said behaviour.

At various groups I have had to intervene on many occasions when she is shoving my 2 year old or grabbing things from him. If you're not going to parent her, I'll step in to protect my child.

I see a real nasty streak developing in her now. She gets a vicious glint in her eye and has started to show pleasure at hurting other children.

If gentle parenting doesn't have boundaries it isn't gentle parenting, it's not giving a shit.

All well and good if they want to parent like that, I just choose not to let my child play with those kids, move hurt, snatched from child away to play with kids raised properly 🤣

Ughhh. This is what I call PPP (piss poor parenting) and it is why we have an upcoming generation of entitled self absorbed humans, who don’t have a great deal of consideration for anyone other than themselves.

Parenting children is formed by many things but one of the most important is to set them up for ‘life’, and in life, you’re often having to follow other’s requests/wishes/needs.

Do your kids a favour and teach them how to be decent, kind and considerate humans.

Child A needs a good thrashing. With a stick.

They'll be an absolute blast at school...

i don’t know a single gentle parent who parents like this. That’s permissive parenting regardless of what they call themselves.

Gentle parenting: Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Child B wasn’t done playing with that yet. We WILL give it back and you can have a go when child B is done.” Remove toy from child A and give to child B. Comfort child A while they inevitably have a ‘tantrum’ from the toy being removed “I know you wanted to play with that toy and it’s sad that you can’t do that right now etc”

I think you have to adapt your parenting to your kids, because they are all different. I've got teenagers. I've always had to be firmer with one of my DCs, from when he was old enough to run with a stick.
My other has always been an absolute dream child to parent and I've never so much as had to raise my voice slightly. I would describe myself as a gentle parent. I know the types you are talking about. They aren't doing gentle parenting. They are just wet lettuces.

I agree it depends on the child. Some are on the “gentle parenting” page, happy to be reasoned with and acquiesce. Some would even at two years old laugh in your face and carry on misbehaving and not give a flying wotsit if anyone else was “sad” or “waiting for a turn” .

This is not gentle parenting it’s terrible, lazy, selfish parenting! This parents need to get a grip on their children if they are hitting and snatching they sound like little brats! My baby is only 2 and I’m teaching her about being gentle and sharing. If she did this to another child I’d be mortified! I know all kids do it at some point, but I’d march her straight out of that sandpit and take the toy stick away immediately and apologise to the child/ parents wether my child decided to or not.

As for the brushing the teeth, that’s a real worry as a dental professional if a child’s parent said that to me I’d start the safeguarding process because toothbrushing is non negotiable. The child could get a cavity, need to get extractions, may have to go to hospital for general anaesthetic or god forbid get sepsis and die! Never mind time off school/ nursery, sleepless nights, pain, lack of confidence, a financial burden on parents who need to take time off work and the NHS! Absolutely appalled at that and in the 9 years I’ve been treating children I’ve never heard this!

Totally agree with this!

I do the gentle-grandparenting-thing. I don't hit, I don't yell, but I will most certainly intervene when they're doing something inappropriate like hitting another child, throwing sand or running of with another child's toy. Then I act like a responsible grandma and make my grandchild behave ánd make up. Gently of course.

Thats just "lazy, irresponsible parenting". When they're teens they'll probably walk all over their parents so i guess it's karma.🤣

Your point exactly, none of those examples are actual gentle parenting. It's lazy parenting, or push over parenting.
Gentle parenting would be for example,
We build with the sand, if we can't build with the sand and we continue to throw it then we have to come out of the sand box. And then following through.
Your examples are people using gentle parenting as an excuse for their kids taking over.

There’s a tonne of shit parenting and aggressive awful kids in my youngest’s reception class. Way more than when my eldest was that age. “Gentle parenting” has meant some parents feel too self conscious to tell their kids off in public and they run riot.

Reading one of the posts above reminded me of the time a mum realised she'd not been for a wee all day and was absolutely busting to the point of doing the wee wee dance. The toilet was about 30 feet away and she asked her three year old daughter PERMISSION to go and use the bloody toilet because it was going to interrupt what she was doing with her!