To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

@hydriotaphia The problem is what's "the right support"? I'd like to see this thread sound alarms for any new parents who are looking for parental advice and be wary the line between "gentle parenting" and "permissive parenting" and maybe wake up some others as the natural consequences will be on them and their children.

The tones of this thread may not all be warm and supportive to certain types of parenting, but as this quoted poster said "its very unfair on the children themselves, not just their classmates. They start to see themselves as being wrong or naughty for doing what they have always done. If anything it likely to create a negative self image that is much more damaging in the long term."

You see examples everywhere. What's being supportive to the parents and their children in the long run?

Just as I said I would. Child would be removed from the situation. I would tell them No in a stern voice and, when they calmed down a little, I would explain why I removed them (ages appropriate level, obvs) Consequence of misbehaving is that you don't get to do what you want to do.

DD is VERY well behaved and well adjusted. Preschool teachers have commented on how sweet she is in setting.

What do you do??

Just FYI. They use this at pre-school, which is how kids learn not to go round whacking each other in the classroom.

Wouldn‘t call that ineffective parenting. Provided its contextual and the outcome is explained to the child.

„Kid A, we don’t smack/hit as it hurts, remember kind hands.“

^ What I’ve used- yet to see my kids hit another child with anything.

Avoidingsleep I would use the example of going out in the snow without shoes a a good way for kid to learn, to have fun, and to have a harmless but quite extreme experience. Would you also not let them pick up snow with their bare hands?

No one is going to get hurt from feeling snow on bare feet for 30 seconds. (Obviously I only let my kids go out with bare feet if they could come right back and get their boots once they realised how much they needed them!)

This is a really good response.

But also I would ask of the PP, do you never try to understand your small child’s behaviour? That’s what your post suggests.

I have autistic DC and one was pretty much non-verbal til around 6 years. If I hadn’t tried to understand what was going on in his head life would have been pretty miserable for both of us.

Understanding the cause of behaviour doesn’t mean accepting or condoning it. But to use your example, if you can figure out WHY your 3yr old wants to bash another kid then you’ve got a better chance of stopping it happening again.

The lengthy explanations only can be done in a 1-1. What parents don’t think about is the fact that their child will be one of a big group at an activity or school.

its easy

Empathy - Knowing that it’s your child’s first time feeling and expressing on this planet. You’re supposed to guide them; Do you think yelling at them or hitting them shows them how to release their emotions effectively and safely? Does it give them a good example of how to go about doing it? Are you a good role model?

Respectful - Don’t call them names, don’t manhandle them and leave marks on their skin. Respectfully lead them away from the situation, communicate with them, your expectations and enforce boundaries.

Understanding - is twined in with the above ^ Don’t emotionally or physically hurt your kid.

• SET BOUNDARY BEFORE PLAY (CHANCE 1).

“Remember kind hands, be nice or we go home.“

Kid A grabs toy and hits kid B (chance 2)

„Kid A, we don’t hit, it hurts and it’s not nice. Remember kind hands or we go back home.“

Kid A hits Kid B (chance 3)

„Kid A, No! No hitting, kid B is sad now you hurt them. Time to go home now.“

As they age you start implementing timeout, which is more like an opportunity to reflect about their behaviour with them on a 1:1 basis- highlighting how feelings feel in their head/body. How to deal with those emotions, especially anger/frustration „use your words.“ Use mindfulness techniques with them, make them age appropriate.

My kids are 4&5yo, both good kind children. Never had to smack them and I’ve yelled like once in the last 6 months and that was a dangerous situation, where they ran away from me by a road.

Agree that all the examples in the OP are just totally poor parenting. You don’t sit there whilst allowing your child to hurt another child (even if you’re telling them not to at the time). You actively get in there and prevent it happening. I’d be motified if my child hurt another child and it would be straight home if we were out and about.

I think most people sit in the middle ground of parenting, will try and explain things in a calm/firm manner to their kids first (if they are doing something wrong) but will step in quickly when their child is doing any of the examples given. Setting good boundaries from as soon as they are able to understand also helps.

No, I don’t agree at all.

Authoritative and gentle parenting are extremely similar - and both contrast starkly with permissive parenting and authoritarian parenting.

Authoritative parenting is more structured but both have a very similar approach. In some parenting manuals, authoritative and gentle parenting are actually grouped together as the same thing.

Gentle parenting allows for natural consequences. So for example a child hitting others at soft play, the natural consequence is to remove them because they’re hurting others. You’re not removing them as a punishment - you’re removing them because that’s a natural consequence of their behaviour. There’s a subtle difference in emphasis but the actions may be similar.

The trouble is that there are so many examples of permissive parenting or those who have just not grasped what gentle parenting is about that everyone assumes that gentle parenting is about being a pushover when that’s categorically not the case.

You can respect and validate a child’s feelings while still implementing consequences.

Screenshots to demonstrate what I’m trying to describe.

I feel like 'gentle parenting' has become a bit culture wars. There is so many posts on it. And out comes loads of criticism for allowing kids to become feral, or that the parents are weak lefties. Yes there are examples of bad gentle parenting but probably just as many of the stricter more traditional types of parenting. For me in theory gentle parenting makes sense. I get the impression most of those scoffing at gentle parenting had their kids a long time ago and probably feel criticised that the trend has move on from what they used to do.

This

I agree totally with this - the ones I know who are the most ‘relaxed’ in their parenting style (I think thats the word they would use), have the naughtiest kids, can’t sit still in the classroom and create the most problems.

Gentle parenting deserves to be slagged off when people who use it say things like this. This was said on a thread a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely ridiculous. Do they really, seriously believe that us 'non gentle' parents are brutalising and hitting our children? Really?

gentle parenting is about not brutalizing and shaming and hitting a child and respecting their autonomy. It’s about treating a child like an individual deserving of respect and kindness. It’s about treating them like an individual and not your property to mold; it’s about guidance

Also you say I talk to my children with respect, and I expect the same back
I would think most parents do that, not just 'gentle parents'.

Interesting you mentioned baby led weaning. I think this is the worst trend to ever hit child rearing. The amount of children I've witnessed practically turning blue with eg a piece of raw carrot or apple stuck in their throats is unbelievable. To then hear the words thats ok it's a natural reflex they will get over it. Would an adult like to tackle food like this if they had few, or even worse, no Teeth? 🤦‍♀️

Why didn't you stop it then?

I get the impression most of those scoffing at gentle parenting had their kids a long time ago and probably feel criticised that the trend has move on from what they used to do.

It's been a round a while and mine are now teens - not sure if that's a long time ago - but it's long enough to see kids with parents who espoused these view grow up - with a few exceptions it's often led to poor behavior late primary leading into very difficult teen years and behavior just into adulthood. Outcome wise it's not looked good from the outside.

I didn't have any chocking when we did baby led weaning- but then it was really finger food and it was thought though what I gave them. It was messy but for me was about giving them control over what to eat - had family members who'd ignore body language of baby and over feed with spoon till point of sickness if not stopped - it was a defence from that as well.

To be fair, in one of the other comments I made I said almost exactly what you’re saying.

I think that other than those who adopt a very authoritarian approach, the majority of parents probably follow gentle parenting without realising it.

Gentle parenting isn’t an odd outlier as it’s often seen but the perception of it is being distorted by people who are just lazy or fearful parents.

Children need to understand that there is a line and you don't cross it. I remember being aghast when at a mother baby thing, I'd put my sleeping newborn in her pram in an adjoining room while I supervised my toddler and suddenly there was a blood curdling scream. It was my baby DD but it sounded nothing like her. A child had crept into the room and bitten her hand while she slept drawing blood and leaving bite marks and bruising. She was hysterical afterwards.

The way the mother spoke to her child (the biter) blew my mind. A sing song voice about 'we don't bite'. The kid was taking none of it in and didn't give a sh*t. She even offered me arnica which made me think it was a regular occurrence.

Generally, when I've seen kids who are in the habit of hurting others, there is this little dance or ritual the whole family do - kid hurts someone, external people get upset, parents says something ineffectual, kid ignores, rinse and repeat. If my kids ever dared to bite to hit another kid, I would go batshit crazy and there would be no mistaking the line had been crossed.

That's not gentle parenting though. You don't ignore serious stuff like what was done to your child. There's a serious confusion on this thread about what it actually is.

@Chickenkeev agree. I think the mother thought it was though!

All the research shows that there’s no increased likelihood of choking when baby led weaning.

We did mostly finger food but not strict BLW, as I imagine most people who aren’t dogmatic one way or the other do. It worked great and DD remains a good eater now - I imagine that’s mostly luck and just how DD is.

What I want to say in gentle parenting has largely been covered really. The weak, permissive parenting described isn’t what I understand by ‘gentle parenting’ but it’s interpreted as that so widely now by both its so called practitioners and its detractors that I feel like we should just accept the new meaning and come up with a better word for what it actually is.

I don’t always meet the standards of the true gentle/ authoritative parenting - I find it bloody hard. I was getting myself quite stressed trying to follow certain scripts etc, so I’ve stepped back from that now and from analysing the everything I ever say to DD in case it’s wrong. I’ve reframed it for myself as just calm and consistent with a focus on connection - still fall short on the calm front occasionally but I’m not perfect!

It is what ‘gentle parents’ want it to be at any particular moment.

Badly behaved kid? That’s the result of being ‘permissive’ or ‘authoritarian’. Well behaved kid? That’s what ‘gentle parenting’ gets you.

It’s meaningless bollocks.

This drives me nuts. Kids need boundaries and if they misbehave and still carry on being naughty than they should learn their will be consequences. It is hard being a parent and no one is 100% perfect in the way we teach our children to be kind, etc but when they are teenagers then you will be thankful of the boundaries set in the early years.

My parents especially my DF were very stricted. Different generation but they were lovely parents but did not tolerate any nonsense. I am in my fifties and I remember my DB being really awful to my DM, my DB did not realise my DF had came home from work and was standing behind him in the kitchen. His face was a picture when he realised our DF was home. My DB had to apologise to my DM and was sent to his room and not allowed out that night to meet his friends. It was the fear that if we were naughty than their were consequences.
With my own dc's and my oldest being a strong willed teenager who thinks she is an adult and knows best. I had to pick my battles over the years. It is bloody hard but kids need boundaries.

No baby should be given raw apple or carrot during weaning. This is ineffective and dangerous. I did BLW with both of mine and I cut everything in finger sized slices and softened. No problems.

It's not gentle parenting. It's crap, ineffectual parenting.

It's your duty as a parent to raise you children to (ideally) function smoothly and easily in society. Teach them to behave in ways that are socially acceptable and are liked by others.

Too many parents are terrified of upsetting their children in any way, and as a result raise children that no other adult can stand.