To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

Agree. Sounds like the parents in the examples given are doing their best and their kids will turn out just fine (except the kid in danger of getting crappy teeth, that’s going to far!).

Yes

Reading lots of comments, I Googled 'Gentle Parenting' and came up with this "Patient, calm, and punishment-free, gentle parenting is an evidence-based approach that focuses on empathy, respect, understanding, and boundaries."

I have a problem with 90% of this.

Empathy is being able to feel what another feels. How do I know what my 3 yr old feels about hitting another child? I presume hes enjoying it?

Respect is hard when your kid is being a monster.

Understanding - how can I understand why he wants to bash another kids brain in?

Boundaries - how can you enforce boundaries which have been overstepped? Talking gently doesn't seem to work. Talking loud or aggressively is verboten and it you raise a hand you can get arrested.

I think there is so much information and emphasis on gentle parenting that people get confused and find it tricky to actually demonstrate it effectively, so it then becomes permissive parenting. I do worry about the generation of kids who've grown up never being told "No you can't do that". As a parent you need to think about what you're sending out into the world. I read something that said my generation is the first generation to apologise to their children, so there's that at least. Parenting is the hardest thing in the world, especially if you've not had the best upbringing.

Hello - Few people have 'perfect' (whatever that means) parenting skils.
The first priority is the safety of all children followed by consideration for people in the vicinity.

Trying to reason with 2 year old is extremely difficult but the parent or carer has to maintain control.

The child needs clear and calm explanations of why certain actions were dangerous and/or unacceptable.

At the same time, distraction techniques are often useful.

This is very hard on parents but necessary if the child is to be made aware of the consequences of unsocial or dangerous actions.
Easier said than done! But be consistent in your responses.

Best wishes and good luck.

Recently it was a forest school day for DD6’s year group at school. Half the year group (one class) one week, the other class the next. On the morning of the first forest school day - not for DD’s class - DD was stroppy because she wanted to wear non uniform. I explained no because she’s not doing forest school that day, hers is next week, she has to wear uniform. Cue a strop, but I said tough, those are the rules. Turn up to school to find DDs classmate in non uniform, despite not doing forest school that day, because mum didn’t want her to feel left out at playtime when she was with her friends (other class) who would be in their forest school non uniform. I mean WTF!! Hardest part about sending kids to school is managing other people’s crappy parenting!

Every day might be a learning experience for some, but I don't think everyone is trying to do their best any more. I really don't. You might be, but I see too many parents of children in my school who I can honestly say aren't trying to do their best. Neglect and shitty parenting is rampant.

Omg my SIL gentle parents and it drives me nuts. 'Don't do that sweetheart' her DD 3yrs old was punching/pinching her in the back. 'Hmm I don't think you should play with those'. DD 1.5yrs old knocked a cup over in the bathroom and was running around with her dad's razor. The 2 DDs were rubbing breadsticks into my mums rug and SIL just turns away so she can pretend not to see it. She doesn't want to be the bad guy, but then her gorgeous girls are turning into CFs. I have a 1 year old and I say no quite sternly and take him away from said situation as he's too young to understand, but at least he'll get an idea of what no means!

The discussion is usually always about the dysregulated child being modelled regulated behaviour by the NT children

Sounds like a laugh a minute! Is 'dysregulated' actually a word, maybe i;'s one of those words made up to try and look important.

Isn't this website supposed to be for supporting parents rather than taking the piss out of them? Honestly, the state of this thread. So many perfect parents in one place, truly astonishing.

I think they (whoever ‘they’ are) have used the wrong word by calling it gentle parenting as it sounds so wet and ineffectual. Maybe it should have been called stable parenting or mindful parenting or something.

Unfortunately this is pretty normal for MN.

Wanting to be your child's 'best friend' when they're small is not doing them any favours for the future.

Almost without exception, the mums (and it's usually mums) who spouted this 'my child is my best friend' nonsense when their child was still a 'child' had children who were quite awful to other children and quite awful to be around.

Be your child's friend when they're fully grown, and hopefully after you've done a good job of raising them. In the meantime, be a parent and actually parent your children!

I have a degree in early years education and work age 3-4 and believe me, this type of behaviour is not tolerated in a classroom, at any age. The children whose parents are like this have a very hard time adjusting to a busy preschool room, its very unfair on the children themselves, not just their classmates. They start to see themselves as being wrong or naughty for doing what they have always done. If anything it likely to create a negative self image that is much more damaging in the long term. We operate on immediate consequences i.e. take the toy off the child, but allow all incidents to pass, disciplining a child for something that happened 2 hours ago is a waste of time. Making a child feel shame for doing what is instinctive (grabbing) is unfair, they are not bad children. But they need to learn what is right and wrong. And when they do something 'wrong' they don't like the consequence so they don't do it again, its simple. We praise sharing, waiting, listening, gentle hands all the time and young children thrive on this type of positive reinforcements.

What really pisses me off is parents wasting time explaining why something is wrong and expecting the child to process this and adjust their behaviour. Most children don't understand the common good or social norms until they are much older. No is enough, the child just needs to know they can't do this thing until their brain catches up and they understand why. For children with SEN the understanding might never be there. But it is still a no. Most children accept very quickly what is ok and what is not, they know the rules and follow them.

I can't stand bloody gentle parenting and I'm not a DM.

SIL does this with DNephew and he runs rings round her, including hitting her repeatedly and when she was pregnant and she used a gentle tone with him. If it were me, I'd be screaming at him... well not really. DB (her DH) is much firmer with him and sorry to say but it works! I do know it's easy to comment if you're not a DP.

I do sometimes have to employ tactics with DNephew e.g. in supermarket like clear instructions, we are going here and here, holding him firmly by the hand and wrist and asking him to help pick out e.g. food for the meal. I appreciate he is probably totally different with his DPs!

You empathise that your child is a 3 year old and doesn't have the emotional capacity to regulate their behaviour- that doesn't mean you allow the behaviour, it means you set boundaries/remove them from the situation etc, rather than punishment and you speak to your child and teach them the language so they learn how to express their emotions.
Respect- we all have feelings, even as adults, but children deserve respect as human beings, again that doesn't mean they can do whatever they want.
Understanding- we give understanding to the child, that he's 3 and we have to teach him the boundaries and how to behave.
Boundaries- obviously you set the boundary before it's overstepped, there's ways to enforce it without punishment etc- taking them away from the situation, natural/logical consequences.

Noone says you can never ever shout at your child, get upset lose your temper, part of gentle parenting is being respectful and empathetic and that is to yourself as well, we're all human, we all have things that trigger us.

The name gentle parenting should probably be changed because it does have negative connotations- authorative parenting makes more sense but then it sounds close to authoritarian.

A lot of parents on this thread who have criticised gentle parenting on this thread then go on to describe how they parent and it's not worlds away from it, it's sometimes just about the language.

I think a lot of “gentle parents” latch on to the “reasoning with” part. That’s all very well, but a) try reasoning with a toddler and b) a child can soon sniff out that they can get away with murder.

Also offering choices and debating things all the time. Give the child some space! And headspace. No one of any age wants someone blethering on at them about food options and making decisions about every mortal thing.

@BertieBotts may I ask you what you do for a living? Not a loaded or trick question, just interested.

omg there is a sand park close to where we live, I don’t care whose child it is you will hear me yelling “ Oi No throwing sand” I’ve lost count of the amount of times some kid has gone running to mummy and daddy to say that lady shouted at me. I’m waiting for the day one actually says something to me. My DCs are older now so should know better, but I’d not have an issue if someone told them off if I was slacking.
@AliceMcK I think you make a good point. As adults we are all terrified of upsetting each other so in a way we are enabling this behaviour. I often hoped a random stranger would tell my DS off as he was wild and I was exhausted from him. I have gotten more assertive recently, and its really not a big deal, most children immediately change their behaviour if you say it nicely. 'No running up the slide' etc. Recently a small child was shouting in a restaurant, not upset just talking really loudly, the parents may or may not have been aware, but when the child caught my eye, i gently put my finger to my lips and the child lowered her tone and I smiled and waved at her. That's all it took. Sitting there moaning about the child's parents would have achieved nothing.

I am still quite horrified at what Dh and I witnessed, when we were having coffee in the garden of a local cafe where a group of middle-class parents of young children were sitting. One of the kids, a little boy of about 4 was completely out of control, running around screaming and throwing things. Mother didn’t do a thing, just sat there looking pathetic and gormless. She had laid her baby down on the ground on a blanket.

This boy ran up to the baby at full pelt, launched himself onto the baby and began punching her forcefully in the face and body. Everyone there just looked on in horror as this kid carried out his violent assault on the child. I remember crying out in alarm. Husband was aghast. The mother did absolutely nothing. After finishing the attack on the baby, this boy was allowed to continue running about causing trouble. No repercussions, no restraint. The worst parenting I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing and I still worry about the welfare of that baby to this day.

What a load of bullshit that spiel about toothbrushing is! Did it ever occur to them that the normal scenario is that a parent makes the kid brush their teeth, and quickly the kid realises it’s not actually that bad, and if they comply everything is done and dusted and on they go?

I mean, that level of navel gazing is completely inappropriate (not to mention unobtainable for anyone with more than 1 kid) for something that fundamentally just needs to happen. God only knows what their response would be to something that’s actually difficult for a child to deal with.

I would have been tempted to report the assault on the baby to Social Services. Babies have very rarely been killed by small children.

Sounds like permissive parenting. not gentle. Gentle parents would take the stick away and say "I will not let you hit other children with this so I'm taking it away"

It’s not necessarily the words that are being said. It’s the lack of action. The child should be moved away or stopped and spoken to. They don’t have to be screamed and shouted at, but they need to actually be listening and focussed on what the parent is saying. It sounds more like you have described lazy parenting.

I agree though, some gentle parenting is nuts. I saw a woman let her child go out in the snow with no shoes “she will learn, her feet will get cold then she will put them on”. There seems to be no regard for the fact a child may be harmed by allowing them to make certain decisions.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong I live in the south now and people round here definitely don't like to say anything to other people's DC it would all be side eyes and tutting and maybe overly loud positive praise to their child for not throwing sand, very passive aggressive, but I was relieved when I went up north to a city park that had water elements to it and a child was deliberately getting wet and then making non wet apparatus wet and then watching another child coming down/using it and ending up with an unexpected wet bum and that child was told that that was unacceptable and not to do it by someone and no repercussions from child's parent.