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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

924 replies

gpbs · 20/02/2024 23:25

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

  1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)
  1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed
  1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.
  1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
notafruit · 21/02/2024 12:35

I'm friends with a large group of ladies since I was pregnant with my youngest. Several of them have gone the "gentle parenting" route, and every single one of them has terrible trouble with their kids, now they are hitting teenage years.

SuperBored · 21/02/2024 12:45

I think the problem is broad brush stroke labelling of a parenting 'style'...no-one needs the label as surely it comes down to the same basics for all of them
Don't hit child
Try not to shout unless someone in danger
Explain reasons for doing/not doing
Explain consequences of doing/not doing
Follow through with consequences
The examples given don't do these
The rest of the parenting 'style' is just fluff/selling books to make money imo

GooseClues · 21/02/2024 12:46

Gentle parenting “done correctly” is called authoritative parenting. That’s where all this confusion comes in. It’s not permissive parents incorrectly calling themselves gentle parents. It’s the authoritative parents incorrectly calling themselves gentle parents because they think that explaining things, listening to your child and not shouting makes them gentle (which it does but in the common meaning of the word gentle not the specific term “gentle parenting”). “Gentle parenting” refers specifically to a style of parenting where negative renforcement is not used. There are books etc. about it.

That’s why some of the posters had to leave gentle parenting groups because they sounded batshit. They probably joined the group thinking the word “gentle” refers to respectful, non-shouty parenting when in reality it refers to the specific body of work and practice of “gentle parenting “. It’s essentially a technical term and does not refer to a parent who is gentle. Not practicing “gentle parenting” doesn’t mean you’re not gentle, and being a gentle parent doesn’t mean you practice “gentle parenting”.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 21/02/2024 12:46

Perkatory · 21/02/2024 12:10

I do think that unfortunately we have this culture now where kids are given too much power. It's scary for a kid to know that they have that level of power. I've had a lot of judgement over the years (and threats I would get reported!) for telling my kids off and then letting them experience the negative emotion or consequence. I'm very positive, empathetic, and supportive of my DC. But I'm also not going to neglect my duty as a parent to teach them to be good people and citizens. If they don't like having that boundary set and want to sulk, stomp, cry, shout or strop then they can crack on. I am setting that boundary to protect them from social isolation and difficulty managing it the future.
I also think if my child is having difficulty managing the expectations of an environment and/or their own emotional regulation, the kind, respectful, empathetic thing to do actually is to leave that environment. I'm protecting them from shame and embarrassment at not acting in the way they would like. I'm keeping them safe when they are unable to meet the demands of that situation. I think that scooping up a 2.5 year old who is having a tantrum at the playgroup IS the kindest thing you can do, for them as they are not happy and also for everybody else there.
Which I think is the big concern we have lost as a society, the concern for other people. And that's what boundaries are about. Respect and empathy are wonderful things, but we can't chose to only give those to our DC. What about their class mates, their teachers, our partners, or other children, the wider family, the wider community, their friends and future partners, employers, etc.

Permissive 'gentle' parenting is failing us all in the future for the sake of an easy life today. It's incredibly short sighted

Just grabbing at the end of your point here.

We had around 6 hours of training recently on therapeutic practices and part of that was a question that was asked re. poor behaviour in mainstream education. The discussion is usually always about the dysregulated child being modelled regulated behaviour by the NT children etc etc. However, one of the participants asked if it is fair on the majority to be negatively impacted by the minority, particularly if the NT children were starting to mimic the poor behaviour of the dysregulated child. The trainer said that can and does happen and that in those situations it was the right thing to move the dysregulated child to a safe place and work from that area.

So I agree with your point about removing the child. It is not always the right thing to leave the child there and make other accept negative behaviour. If you know your child is likely to be upset by a busy environment because of the potential of SEN for example (my child’s case when he was young) then the right thing for us was not to go at all. I knew he couldn’t cope. I knew they’d be a grand drama with lots of filthy looks from other parents, so we did something else instead. This goes back to knowing your child and parenting according to the child you have, not the child you wish you had.

Themaghag · 21/02/2024 12:50

Parenting nowadays looks like such hard work. Children need clear boundaries that are firmly policed and a routine that is designed around the parents' work and social obligations. I know so many children who rule the roost with parents who are driven to exhaustion by co-sleeping, no fixed bed or nap times, baby-led weaning and all of the rest of the modern child-rearing lexicon. It looks nighmarish! I was always firmly of the opinion that children have to fit around the adults and do what they are told at least 90% of the time. I don't know how today's mums manage, especially since so many of them are also having to cope with full time work too!

Tryingandfailingagain · 21/02/2024 12:52

This is not gentle parenting. I’ve loosely practiced “gentle parenting” for almost 10 years, and I am much more hands on than most of my friends when it comes to parenting.

These are examples of a lazy, spineless, can’t be arsed approach.

Redpaisley · 21/02/2024 12:52

Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we?
We don't do that, dont we?

Would it be wrong to tell the mum, yes you do.
She should take the stick, toy from the kid and tell them that it's wrong to hit, snatch things off other people.

Xenoi24 · 21/02/2024 12:52

I was on a bus in Cambridge where a mother asked a woman to move seats because her son (about 3) wanted that seat.

There were loads of other seats free.

(The seat was one of the raised ones towards the back so maybe better views for a kid etc).

Anyway the mother asked and the poor woman moved instantly so they could sit in her seat.

Mother clearly thought it was perfectly ok.

Chickenkeev · 21/02/2024 12:54

Xenoi24 · 21/02/2024 12:52

I was on a bus in Cambridge where a mother asked a woman to move seats because her son (about 3) wanted that seat.

There were loads of other seats free.

(The seat was one of the raised ones towards the back so maybe better views for a kid etc).

Anyway the mother asked and the poor woman moved instantly so they could sit in her seat.

Mother clearly thought it was perfectly ok.

Edited

That's not gentle though, it''s an entitled and batshit mother!

ACynicalDad · 21/02/2024 12:55

If what they are doing is hurting another child/person/animal/property, you need to stop that immediately. Say this at the same time if you like, but stop the behaviour. Also, resilience is a really important life skill, life can be hard, kids need to learn it isn't all the way they want it and they need to come back from things.

katseyes7 · 21/02/2024 12:59

I work in a supermarket and l see this all the time. No consequences/boundaries for behaviour, ineffectual requests to 'stop doing' whatever which have no effect whatsoever.
Children rampaging round the store, throwing things, l've had tots at my checkout clutching toys which cost over £20, when l've asked the parent if they're paying for them they've just said "No..." but made no attempt to take them from the child. Then when l do, with the resulting screaming and tantrum, the parent says/does nothing. Except be glued to their phone.
I have two (now grown up) stepsons. And they were 'proper boys' for want of a better expression, especially the youngest. Stubborn and wilful, just like his dad.
They were spoiled materially, but behaviour had consequences. And now they're two lovely, well mannered, responsible young men.
In a lot of cases it's laziness. Wanting to be your child's 'best friend' when they're small is not doing them any favours for the future.

Seablue9 · 21/02/2024 13:03

As the mother of happy well adjusted confident young adults I haven't a clue about the concept of gentle parenting. I do know my children were encouraged to communicate in general & definitely talk about anything bothering them. They were allowed to make choices where appropriate & most importantly throughout every age group they were in absolutely no doubt who was boss.

Redpaisley · 21/02/2024 13:05

Gagaandgag · 21/02/2024 11:58

These are probably well meaning parents that don’t have the understanding of what it actually entails.
I personally prefer the term ‘respectful parenting’ which means respect works both ways with boundaries. Some of the examples you give are verging on permissive parenting.

But many might be taken out of context. She might not have told you all the conversations they have had about how brushing their teeth is important and when she said she didn’t brush them maybe she meant just not in that moment. It’s about finding a balance obviously.

I know ‘gentle parenting’ often gets a bad rep. However, at the end of the day, we do have to acknowledge that in many ways parenting has improved- in the sense of children can be more respected, shown more compassion and are actually treated as human beings in their own right- with brains that are still developing.

Creating a positive partnership between you and your child can only be a good thing in my opinion.

It's not just about relationship between you and your kid when you are with other people. If your kid is hitting another with a stick or snatching a toy from another kids or throwing sands in people's face, you need to show some responsibility and consideration to those people.

NeedAnUpgrade · 21/02/2024 13:05

The one thing I wasn’t expecting when I had my first child was the complete onslaught of judgment from other people. My SIL decided that I was a weak parent for not allowing my newborn to cry herself to sleep and also for breastfeeding.
There are so many conflicting opinions on how to raise children. I suspect that most people think their parenting skills are far better than others and so really struggle when it gets tough.

Pre child me had lots of parenting strategies and how things in our home would be. Most of them were BS and I actually didn’t have a clue about the reality.

I also don’t think parenting is one size fits all. I have one ND child and one NT, the rules are the same for them both but how we approach it is different for each child.

I try to be less judgmental. I doubt the person with the little brat of a child is completely oblivious but is not going to accept any input from another person just judging them.

Chickenkeev · 21/02/2024 13:08

NeedAnUpgrade · 21/02/2024 13:05

The one thing I wasn’t expecting when I had my first child was the complete onslaught of judgment from other people. My SIL decided that I was a weak parent for not allowing my newborn to cry herself to sleep and also for breastfeeding.
There are so many conflicting opinions on how to raise children. I suspect that most people think their parenting skills are far better than others and so really struggle when it gets tough.

Pre child me had lots of parenting strategies and how things in our home would be. Most of them were BS and I actually didn’t have a clue about the reality.

I also don’t think parenting is one size fits all. I have one ND child and one NT, the rules are the same for them both but how we approach it is different for each child.

I try to be less judgmental. I doubt the person with the little brat of a child is completely oblivious but is not going to accept any input from another person just judging them.

Amen to this! The judgement starts before they've even been born. It's shit altogether.

waterrat · 21/02/2024 13:09

I agree that there is too much judgement

I have always worked from home so I've done a lot of childcare/ time spent in parks etc - picked the kids up every day for years - so I have seen a lot of different types of behaviour

Maybe the parent you see struggling to control behaviour is having a bad day.

Mumsnet is astonishly judgemental on behaviour - in real life I tend to see parents trying to tune in to the kids mood/ listen to their feelings - yes sometimes instead of 'telling them off' - but as others have said maybe if we understand a little more and condemn a little less children will grow up knowing how to behave in a more regulated way

and I really really don't like the argument that ND children who struggle to self regulate should have to avoid spaces in case tehy are a bad example to NT children - wtf???

My daughter is autistic and sometimes finds things difficult - I have become far more tolerant of children in general since she was born ebcause I know there is no way to know the full story without knowing the family and the child.

Nantescalling · 21/02/2024 13:16

PlantDoctor · 20/02/2024 23:34

These examples are not gentle parenting. I'd consider myself a gentle parent. It doesn't mean allowing kids to hurt others. In those situations I would give the warning and explanation, but if kid proceeded to try to hurt others they or the object would be removed. If my kid cried about that, I would again explain why it happened (I can't allow you to hurt others).

Edit to correct typo

Edited

Just warning and explanation? What do you do in the face of defiance and the kid continuing to misbehave?

Return2thebasic · 21/02/2024 13:18

About making it playful and being fun to motivate children to do things.

Honestly, life isn't always presented in that way, is it? I "fight" with my 4yo and make it clear that "There are things you want to do AND there are things that you need to do. The latter may not be fun and you may not like, but it's what your body needs and your healthy development needs. So get on with it!"

Also about Baby Led Weaning. I didn't do it with either of mine as I can't deal with the mess! Both of mine are good eaters most of the time. And when they don't like the food on their plates, they moan about it but would eat them tolerably. I was told they are a lot less picky than their friends.

I read about the principle of BLW, but honestly, it's against my philosophy - Life is hard sometimes and it's about what we need not what we like. It's a great gift to learn to get on with not amusing (sometimes even unpleasant) but necessary tasks. To learn it's ok to reject food because you don't like it, for the taste/texture whatever, it's setting a habit that I wouldn't encourage. Call me "authoritarian" or whatever, they need to adapt and grow capable to cope with the environment which is not catered for their preference!

drskt · 21/02/2024 13:19

Old work friend is like this with hers. The kids don't have bedtimes, the boy is allowed to choose not to cut his hair, they never get told no, every single activity is centred around them, no boring but necessary trips to the supermarket, it's all for them. She won't even interrupt their play to go to the toilet/get drinks/food if they are out for herself, she'll just wait all day until they are ready. Her needs are completely subsumed by their wants. It's not doing them any favours though, the rest of the world won't revolve around them and my kids turn feral after a day out with them and seeing the behaviour so I avoid now. She thinks she is doing them a favour, she has ostracised them from other children.

blueshoes · 21/02/2024 13:22

BertieBotts · 21/02/2024 12:30

TBH I have not read Sarah-Ockwell Smith's books except her second child one which honestly I didn't find very helpful - so I can't speak much to the tooth brushing/bath example.

But I think to illustrate that there are a lot of things under the umbrella of gentle parenting, and why it's an unhelpful term to use:

Some people would follow a playful approach and persuade the child into the bath/toothbrushing by making it fun. Making up games or songs, buying a character toothbrush or toothpaste, coloured bubble bath, new bath toys etc.

Positive parenting would say use the play approach, or praise to motivate, or use a sticker chart to build the habit.

Some people would consider the above too coercive and like "tricking" the child.

A reasoning approach might be to explain about tooth bacteria, cavities, toothache and loss of teeth.

Some people would say that is unfair on a child who can't developmentally understand that yet.

I have actually seen people say they would let the child not brush and then when they get a toothache, tell them it is their fault. I cannot fathom what they think is gentle about this, but I've seen it called gentle parenting. Probably because they think it's a natural consequence.

Natural/related consequences would be to explain to the child that they may not eat any sugar as they have chosen not to brush their teeth, with the aim that the child says oh right, better brush my teeth then! (But also OTOH may be seen as a harm reduction technique if the child actually makes the choice not to brush their teeth).

Or the parent may choose a natural/related consequence of pausing/skipping a later, wanted part of the bedtime routine until the child brushes their teeth.

Some people favour autonomy so let the child do their own teeth. Some say you should then do them afterwards in order to ensure they are sufficiently cleaned. Others may provide feedback depending on the age and receptiveness of the child.

The Sears book (attachment parenting) actually says yes make it fun/try praise/try letting them have a go etc, but if necessary hold down the child and do it and be empathetic about them not liking it. Because with their first daughter they let her skip toothbrushing too often, and she got terrible cavities. RIE likely says this too, though their line would be "Thank you for showing me that you needed my help with brushing".

Some say all behaviour is communication, so a refusal of tooth brushing has an underlying cause that the parent should identify and solve the problem. For example, does the child prefer a different toothpaste, a different brush, a different time of day, warm water, a different method altogether. This might be more common when there are known special needs e.g. sensory sensitivities, autism, communication difficulties.

Some say all behaviour is a sign the relationship is ruptured and it's more important to preserve the relationship/trust than to force children to bathe/brush teeth as often as most people would. This might be more common/appropriate in a situation where a child may have suffered trauma or the relationship is damaged or new such as foster care. It is usually accompanied by a suggestion to do lots and lots of relationship/trust building at non toothbrushing times.

Some say skip the battle right now, it can always happen tomorrow (BUT they also hold the belief that in this case, it's important that it DOES happen tomorrow or by some near point). The point of skipping the battle might be to avoid developing a bad association with tooth brushing/baths, or to preserve the parent/child relationship, or to allow time to work out a solution that works for everyone.

Some say skip the battle right now, it can happen when it happens and they have no timescale but they do expect to get to this at some point. Part of Ross Greene's Collaborative Problem Solving approach (plan C) is like this.

A timed pause on the expectation, to remove pressure, is also part of a positive parenting approach, but again comes with an expectation that the issue will be resolved at some specified point in the future. It usually has a set decided length which isn't communicated to the child.

Some would accept a lesser version of teeth cleaning, because at least it is building a positive habit/expectation, but without a structured plan.

Some would try to acclimatise, like first just get the child to hold the brush (praise), then put the dry brush in their mouth for 1 second (praise) then put brush in mouth for longer, then accept some adult movement of brush, then for longer etc, then add a smear of toothpaste, building up slowly to 2 mins brushing with a pea-sized amount. (This is actually a behaviourist technique called shaping, but it's positive and at the child's pace so likely considered gentle).

Some would literally skip it because they are prioritising other things and simply trust the child will get back to it eventually, but don't make any effort to actively push this. (I think this is a problem).

Some may be grateful for the excuse not to push a battle on their child, or be too tired, or disorganised to have a routine, or too burnt out, or simply not know how to. (I don't think this has any redeeming features unfortunately, whereas I can see all of the others being appropriate in some situation even if it's extreme).

I was told by the founder of Visible Child I should let my then 11yo choose not to bathe, and he could decide for himself if being smelly bothered him. I did not think this was good advice. To be fair she does not call her approach gentle parenting (but many, many followers and fans do).

Sorry that was stupidly long. But see why "The gentle parenting approach is...." doesn't work?

That is really comprehensive. Thanks for setting it all out.

I have muddled through and have probably F---ked my dcs up anyway (ala Philip Larkin).

After the first child, I mean who cares?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/02/2024 13:22

It wasn’t that long ago - who else remembers a book called French Children Don’t Throw Food?

Just the title made me mad - a lot of British children don’t either, because their parents aren’t soft/stupid enough to allow them to.

No doubt the deliberately provocative title helped to sell the book, though. But not to me!

KittySmith1986 · 21/02/2024 13:24

That just sounds like pathetic parenting. I have always believed that if you put clear boundaries in before the age of about 5, it makes things much easier from then on.

Return2thebasic · 21/02/2024 13:25

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/02/2024 13:22

It wasn’t that long ago - who else remembers a book called French Children Don’t Throw Food?

Just the title made me mad - a lot of British children don’t either, because their parents aren’t soft/stupid enough to allow them to.

No doubt the deliberately provocative title helped to sell the book, though. But not to me!

Well the French can go too far to the opposite way though in a compliance driven society.

The best is really about a balance. But bless those who can find it...

Still learning...

SuperBored · 21/02/2024 13:29

@BertieBotts I would say that those techniques from different styles may (mostly) all have their place, but the context of the situation is what would drive my choice of technique and I may switch technique if something isn't working in a situation rather than rigourously following a style just so I can claim to be a 'type' of parent

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