To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

My Mum used to say, "inside voices" for Cathedral visits, the Library, a gallery etc. I'm not sure how new that is. When she didn't approve of our behaviour, she would describe how silly we were being but in third person either to my Dad or fresh air, she did do it with my DC as well but she thought more things were silly or embarrassing than me.

Actual gentle parenting is really hard work- I'd say to the extent you have to be a robot in order to actually achieve the standards it sets. This is why people who think they like the idea of gentle parenting pre-children often end up being permissive instead.

That’s just a cop out. It’s re-labelling rubbish, timid parenting.

I'm dealing with a pre-teen these days with DC1. Not sure if works on a 7yo, but I was told they talk more and more open to listening when you are enjoying some activity together. Just talk alongside, iyswim. Make sure it's lighthearted ( almost random) to avoid them raising the guard... Maybe worth a try.

The bonding between you is the the key and the lifeline helping navigate through the next 10+ challenging years. So try to always share some activities together and keep the bonding strong.

I bet they would be furious if their DC's got sand in their eyes from another DC throwing it or something else happened to their DCs.

Yes. I has this with a friend when our DC were really little, like 18 months/2 ish. We were in a cafe with a play area and my DS wanted the other child to come and see something. She was sitting in a chair and he tried to pull her to come with him, unfortunately by her head. I immediately leapt up and stopped him and took his arms off her head, then explained that hurt and he could hold her hand but not her head and she didn't have to come if she didn't want to, etc etc all that. After removing him. But my friend - who is a very nice person but "gentle" parent of the century - was furious that my DS had "strangled" her DD and was off with me for ages.

If it had been her child doing that, she wouldn't have stopped her at all for fear of upsetting her. She would literally tell me she never ever wanted to make her DC cry as she couldn't bear it. But toddlers cry when they don't get their way - that's not abuse but she couldn't see it that way. Once she told me she waited on her doorstep for an hour because her DD wouldn't come in after getting home from somewhere. This is a toddler. She just coaxed and pleaded until the DD got bored/hungry and came in. I'd have picked her up and taken her in, apparently she couldn't do that as it might have upset her.

It definitely the lack of confidence in setting and carrying out natural consequences that's the issue. Parents are so terrified of being authoritarian that they end up being permissive.

Telling kids 'gentle hands' and 'indoor voices' are appropriate ground rules before entering a new space, before any actual infraction has happened.

Then if any unwanted behaviour rears it's head, then they get a firm reminder of the rules and told they're on a final warning, if it happens again we will have to leave, etc...

And then calmly follow through if necessary.

As a single mum of a wild toddler, I knew there was no one coming to do my job for me... Maybe some of these wishy washy mum's just assume dad will be the backbone so they don't have to.

Sometimes, they are just too afraid to confront of their child... It REALY takes hardwork to be a parent.

Not sure how much people really knew what it entails before having children.

Unfortunately, easier life now = harder life later x (the child + the parents)

Gentle parenting. More like "cop out" parenting IMHO. Biggest load of bullshit I ever heard
No wonder kids are carrying knives and stabbing each other nowadays

Mum of 4 ( 3 totally grown up and actual nice people). Haven't RTFT ( sorry

1. me : "put that stick down now or we are leaving".Quite loud voice. Follow through
2. "We don't snatch". If no response ask the mother to sort.
3. Let's count to 100 when we brush our teeth! Bet you can't, omg you can. We will do ( xyz fun thing once teeth are done - you are wasting fun time)
4. "NEVER THROW SAND" it can get in peoples eyes and is very dangerous. We need to leave now as throwing sand is wrong!!!!

Sticks are for looking at: gentle parenting would say kids are seeking certain physical stuff that it is the job of the parent to find a safe way to express. So we run a stick along a metal fence, we throw a stick for a dog.

Totally agree. My mum has taught Reception for 27 years and she says the evolution of the 'little shit bag' behaviour is terrible. Her naughtiest child in the class of 27 years ago would now be considered mild.

Exactly this. My friend is a teacher in a special school for children with autism and SEMH. She’s said she would chose it any day over working in mainstream because “the children I work with behave badly in a meltdown, but usually understand afterwards and are very sorry and are capable of learning better behaviours”, whereas the kids in her old mainstream school were just naughty, spoilt kids who behaved that way out of choice.

Exactly. Kids have the upper hand nowadays. My two wouldn’t have dreamed of behaving like that because they knew theirs parents were in charge. It’s called routine and boundaries. No wonder this country is in the mess it is

Another example that sticks in my head, different friends, they came round with their 4yo for lunch and a walk. His mum said he didn't want to go on the walk. I mean kids often don't but they have fun when they get there and sometimes it's just what's happening, is my view. But after lots of discussion, we agreed we'd all go and the mum could stay at ours with the 4yo and play with toys until we got back. Oh no, then he might miss out! So in the end we all went and his mum carried him on her back the whole way.

It's a balance because yes you do need to listen to your DC and they may have a good reason for refusing to do something. I'm not all "you must always do what I say because I said so or else". But they also don't always know what's best for them. A bit of chivvying or a natural consequence (you'll miss out on the slide etc) to get them to go for a walk, and they'll enjoy themselves, sleep better etc which is nicer for them. Just letting very young children make all the decisions doesn't end well because they literally don't know what's best for them in most situations.

Unfortunately the “Gentle Parents” have all now acquired “The family dog” and are applying this batshit philosophy to training.

Now you see a couple on days out with a band of rude children with no boundaries accompanied by a hysterical dog. The parents are laden down with backpacks, drinks, snacks and pricey dog paraphernalia and the whole band looks fed up.

@DonnyBurrito help, are we going back to the 1950s and 'Wait until your father gets home'?!

Children with PDA are taught about the tooth rushing one. It’s not a case of not letting them but learning how to not demand.

I wonder how this will work when they’re adults though? As adults, nobody ‘meets our needs’ or avoids making demands on us. In fact our entire lives are basically not having our needs met, trying to meet them ourselves while doing things for others, and having demands placed upon us (work, bills, children and so on).

What happens when they grow up?

Yep. No one can be bothered to parent kids and discipline them. Kids are growing up far too entitled. They don’t care about carrying knives or getting into trouble because they’ve no one at home to upset. No one at home to be wary of disappointing. Dreadful

None of those examples are gentle parenting..
But rest assured you are absolutely perfect, and wonderful have everything sorted and your children are perfect little poppets who will never put a foot wrong.

Anyone else who struggles with anything or has a bad day is pure trash. Not like you. You're great

Unfortunately not

I have seen some where it seems to involve the mother utterly subsuming her own self, never having any emotional reactions, all for the child. Now as a parent it's your job to control your emotions in the sense you don't hit your child or yell at them all day, but some of it seems full Steptford mother. It's not healthy. Children need to learn that they live in a community where we balance everyone's needs.

Well said!

That does describe our adults lives really well. The reality, that is.😂

I’d like to think of myself as a gentle parent, my son responds well to it and it works for us. I made friends with another gentle mum and I thought ‘great’… anyway one day they were over for a play date, I received an important call so said mum told me to go and take it and she’d watch the kids. I returned to her child smashing my sons head off the floor by his hair, she was sat there going ‘gentle hands’ whilst scrolling on her phone, in the worlds most monotone voice!!!!! I told her to leave and never spoke to her again. Yes kids can play rough but you can’t sit by and watch that. Her child is actually feral (sorry). There is gentle parenting then just can’t be arsed so I’ll let my kid do anything and call it gentle parenting 😬

That's the opposite of gentle parenting.

Yeah I'm going to agree that this isn't gentle parenting taken too far, it's gentle parenting taken not far enough. And I don't mean not gentle enough, I mean not parenting enough

Gentle parenting to me is basically respecting your child as a person, the number of posts I've seen from parents on here saying they want to spend less time shouting at their kids and more time connecting. That's the appeal of gentle parenting.
But you don't just stop shouting you have to replace it with something else, and that something else is also stressful in a different way, and bloody hard work too.
Yes you might choose different limits if your are valuing autonomy rather than obedience in your children, but they still have to exist and be enforced (physically enforced)

Regarding tooth brushing my philosophy is my children need to brush their teeth twice a day most of the time. If they insist on skipping a day I'm not going to get into a battle about it when we are both emotional, but if they try to skip the next time I'll push back more firmly and be prepared to avoid the emotional battle.
So far that's given at least a 95% compliance rate on brushing twice a day, and we have a better relationship.
But if you're just like "yeah whatever" and don't even notice your child never brushes, then that's neglect in my book.