To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

This is the sort of parenting I aspire to! Not shouting, just setting boundaries and consequences.

We left a restaurant the other day when my 2.5YO was running riot, I asked her to sit down or we’d have to leave and gave her some colouring, she sat down for 3 minutes then was off again so we left 🤷🏼‍♀️

They sound as wet as shit, but then I wouldn’t take anyone who calls themselves a’gentle parent’ seriously.

Where were the parents of Children B? Are they gentle sorts too?

Children thrive with reasonable boundaries and rules. They feel safer and know what to expect. Of course you have to be mindful they are human beings and have bad days just like adults and I think it’s perfectly fine to have a gentle approach in those scenarios.

I’m seeing this too. This new breed of teacher who is being trained to be more like a party entertainer than an educator. They brag about how the kids ‘love them’ while the rest of us roll our eyes and plan our escape out of teaching! This is what happens when you put people in charge of education who are fucking clueless. Of course mental health is important but not at the exclusion of actual learning. The majority of kids don’t actually have MH issues so why are we treating them all as if they do?

DS1 was really easygoing when he grew up. So when DC2 came along, I was really shocked how hard to be a parent.

Can't tell how many times I cried and asked DH how could parenting to be so hard and what's wrong with DC2. DH just said that he suspect it's normal at this age but the suspicion is that a lot of parents just avoid dealing with it because of the stress it caused, so they went easy with whatever the child wanted - an easier life, but we know it's not going to be easier in the long run...

I saw a mum sat outside Cafe Nero the other day, she had a baby about 4 months old lying almost flat in a pram with a phone playing cartoons propped up in front of its face. It was really sad actually.

I absolutely agree. It does no favours when home/family life doesn’t prepare our little ones for ‘real life’. I often use the ‘if you’re choosing’ line. ‘If you’re are choosing not to listen, you’re also choosing to go inside.. etc’. Even my youngest has a good grasp on actions have consequences, of course age appropriate and in the context of the issue at hand. Sadly, life isn’t as ‘gentle’ as the parents.

@Rekka weirdly the principal called me last week to tell me off for shouting at my DS too much! He said what the teacher is saying is fine and that they don’t want to put pressure on children and want them to develop at their own pace and blah blah blah.

But now I’m stuck with a 7 yr old who won’t do his homework and who won’t practice his reading! If I raise my voice he threatens to tell the school about it. Next thing I know I’ll have social services at the door! It’s his third year at the school and we’ve never had an issue.

Not sure if teachers everywhere are not being taught to be ‘gentle’? Maybe it’s a generational thing? Who knows!

Yep, ‘what are the school doing’ seems to be the stock response to post about a child having problems on here. I feel like saying what are YOU doing as their parent and the person who is ultimately responsible for them?

You need to have a chat at the time it happens not later, this is the problem. We have children now who hold grudges against things that happened yesterday, last week, last year, 2 years ago. I am often heard saying things that happened in year 1 and 2 were dealt with at the time, you need to forget about that now and concentrate on what has just happened so we can resolve it. Problem is resolved but more often than not child will go home tell parent half the story and parent will then be in school next day demanding we sort it out. Wastes so much time.

@MummySam2017 i actually really like that! Might borrow that turn of phrase for my boys!

I saw a toddler having a bit of a tantrum recently and the woman with him was telling him to "use his words", bloody hell he could barely talk 😂

@cassgate i choose to do it at a quieter time. Usually before bedtime when the 2 yr old is down so it’s quiet and we can actually chat. But now he’s started using ‘it’s in the past’ on me!

@Naptrappedmummy yes, it's harder than authoritarian parenting in the short term, but you get better teens and happier, more emotionally healthy kids. Especially for ND kids who need things spelling out and an awful lot of empathy.

The underlying problem: I mean what is behind that bad behaviour. So over stimulation, boredom, frustration, lack of impulse control, lack of realising other kids have the same feelings you do, especially in younger or autistic kids. God knows how often I've had to pull a kid aside and remind them of that. There's a lot of "remember when x did this to you? You were sad and cried? How do you think y feels about you doing it to them?" But you remove them from the situation first (if necessary) and make sure they understand.

Bleating "gentle hands" only works if you are blessed with a kid who doesn't actually need the reminder!

I do know a kid who doesn't feel fear like other kids - he's an adrenaline junkie who seems to be made of rubber. So if I'm supervising him his underlying problem is a crashing lack of empathy.

The majority of kids don’t actually have MH issues so why are we treating them all as if they do?

This might be the best thing I have ever read on MN.

Hate the phrase gentle hands what does it even mean.
It just sets them up for issues imo when they meet normal boundaries and the word no and can’t cope eg school or activity groups and struggle to settle.
There’s also the risk they will come across a none gently parented child who just grabs stick and whacks them back or pushes them hard to get their ‘gentle’ hands off them and the gentle child’s parents are aghast the natural consequences.

@Rosiiee , No, it's not normal. Our head is just over 30 probably. But she's brilliant - very strict to stick to teaching the basic principles to all children, whilst very fun and extremely caring. She brought a complete change to the school.

For a school, how the head sets the values decides everything... (Ours has its ethos on the website actively promoted throughout all years everyday. not just empty words. And resilience and growth mindset are the biggest things, which means they need to learn to fail and keep trying.)

It's all about instilling a habit of xyz for them to grow up with. If the values instilled in school are such as you described, it's very difficult for you to alter - as all your DC's peers would be influenced too. After all, they spend more time at school in a year...

I tell my daughter "your diagnosis isn't an excuse"

And regarding teeth cleaning from the OP, we have non-negotiables like hygiene and health and they have to do it.

Natural consequences are good though as my not rushing my kid to leave the house means she was once late and now she is the one who wants to leave at a certain time... this was done as if i rushed her she felt pressured and would go slower... leading to me being less calm...

It is lazy, poor parenting being wrapped up as something legitimate for 'enlightened' parents. Many parents just don't care about the effect their children have on others, as long as they get to adopt an easier life and do as they please. I had to suffer ridiculously selfish parenting at the cinema recently when a couple decided to take two very young children to a film that ran until after 11pm. It wasn't a film aimed at kids and throughout the 2 1/2 hours, if they weren't talking (parents too) or rustling packets, they were whining and whinging. Heard the occasional very quiet 'shush' from the mother which had no effect. As I left the mother was grinning like a fool as though it was perfectly acceptable for us all to be disrupted, but they got their night out, the kids didn't have to be restricted in any way and sod everyone else.

I know young people who were brought up loke this. Can't do without anything, ever, can't wait for anything. Rude and entitled

Be kind. No we don't do that. Gentle hands. When one child is busily beating up another. You couldn't make it up. Totally bonkers.

The idea of "gentle parenting" was "Instead of screaming at our kids, hitting them and expecting total obedience, what if we listened to them, put in place more logical consequences instead of punishments, and treated them with respect as human beings?" All of that is absolutely a cultural shift that we needed.

The problem- as you've identified- is that now we have a whole generation of parents bending themselves into mental pretzels trying to work out how to stop their kids from being the little terrors that any small person who has not yet developed self-control and empathy will be without boundaries without ever saying "no" or being in any way firm.

Here we go again. Every week there’s a variation of this post when everyone falls over themselves to slag off gentle parenting.

So yet again, for the infinite time, the example here isn’t gentle parenting, it’s permissive parenting.

Amen! Every week there's another bloody thread from someone who completely deliberately misunderstands what gentle parenting means. Just another lazy thread to stoke up the anti-woke brigade. 🥱

Haven’t RTFT yet but I will be doing. I have a two nearly three year old and I fully admit I don’t know what I’m doing and I am so confused by all the different advice and the guilt trips from Instagram parenting gurus.

Indeed. Used to meet up with a group of mums when all of our DCs were toddlers. On a play date round at ours once, one particular child scratched my DD (fully intentionally- I saw it happen), snatched from others, and even picked up an ornament from the side and threw it out of the door. Child’s mum just kept on with the gently telling off, threatening to take her child home but never following through, no consequences. We don’t see each other anymore due to different areas/schools but our DCs are now 13 and I’ve heard through a mutual contact that the child has grown into a nasty piece of work. Physically attacks her mum, manipulative, causing loads of issues at home. It’s a shame, but you could see that coming a mile off.