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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Excluding a friend?

431 replies

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:16

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5.
We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too.
Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp.
Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in).
Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2.
Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded.
If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us.
Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

OP posts:
Nickyknakynoo · 21/02/2024 22:49

Absolutely agree with @Filly1234 ..there's always someone more invested on controlling the narrative in these situations. When I had a similar situation I was simply out manoeuvred by another group member. I came to the conclusion that she was just more determined than I was to be seen as the good guy and had obviously had prior experience of these hugely childish predicaments....not her first rodeo !

As with Filly1334 's experience, I feel that if group members get caught up in the drama they can end up behaving in a way which suits their best interests rather than what is necessarily 'right' (even if that means the exclusion of a member.)
Whatever the politics the advice should always be to remain absolutely neutral If the health of the group's over all friendship is your ultimate goal.

RadFs · 21/02/2024 22:58

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 17:26

So I did set up a group with everyone for an event we had all together. F1 posted on it a couple times. Then f2 left that group and now no one uses it. Chat on the original group continues as usual. We do try and shut down any chat from f2 about f1 but I also feel like we should support her as she is finding this difficult.
I still see f1 a couple of times a week at a class we do together and I know she chats to the others 1:1. We all make an effort to be at anything f1 invites us too.
I do feel like we've been trying to be fair, but clearly we've upset her when she saw us out without her and you're all helping me understand that.

Show quote history

You keep saying f2 is finding it difficult. The more I read your responses it seems she’s putting up a good show and you’ve all fallen for it.

Covermeinsunshine · 21/02/2024 23:22

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:40

I've been trying to encourage friend 1 to make more of an effort to resolve things. She is saying that she reached out a few times before Xmas with no response and beyond ensuring friend 2 isn't left out she's not really interested now in more than getting to a point where they can be polite to each other for everyone else's sake. I feel like she is being a cold about it all to be honest. She has lots of other friends so isn't missing out as much.

Friend 2 is utterly devasted, feels betrayed by friend 1 and that everyone will now think badly of her and her child. She said she is anxious all the time of bumping into friend 1.
Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset. She's definitely finding the whole thing harder than friend 1.

Friend 2 should be utterly devastated. She dismissed her friend and her concerns over her child as simple playground stuff.

What choice did friend 1 have? Ignore her child and take the other child’s word? You know bullies rarely, if ever fess up to their behaviour…. until much later, often into adulthood.

Friend 1 still invites friend 2. Her only error was to leave the WhatsApp. Friend 2 is playing the victim, but acting the aggressor by refusing to attend anything where friend 1 goes. She is in fact the blue print of her own child…. the bully.

Add friend 1 back to the WhatsApp and tell friend 2 why.

Mamanyt · 21/02/2024 23:57

Kinneddar · 20/02/2024 13:22

I'd invite both of them to everything just as you used to do. Then it's up to them if they come or not. You should be staying neutral

I think you're being really unfair to friend 1. Her son had to move school because friend 2s son was bullying and now she's being excluded from nights out. That's not fair. I'd be really hurt if I was her

Yes, this. Especially since Friend 1's child was the one being bullied. How hurtful for her to be excluded to include the bullier's mother. Invite everyone, and if Friend 2 declines, she is excluding herself.

pineapplesundae · 22/02/2024 01:39

Maybe friend 1 is the actual bully. Some bullies are good at manipulating people around them. It’s better to stay neutral in any case.

FallingDownARabbitHole · 22/02/2024 01:54

Basically friend 2 has realised that due to her child bullying friend 1s child f1 is going to be upset and cause issues in the group. She’s now acting like a teenager and saying that f1 is lying cos she’s jealous of her, I mean how old are you all?

in my opinion F2 is now, after realising the above, manipulating the group to stop including f1. This is also bullying behaviour.

wither that it you are f2

likethislikethat · 22/02/2024 02:02

Tell friend 2 to do one as it was her kid doing the bullying and she isn't calling the shots.

If she doesn't like it, tough.

Invite everyone to everything and make friends 2 either act the spoilt princess or join in.

libbylane · 22/02/2024 02:47

I don't think you should give more support to the one who is most upset. Some people are very upset as a way to get sympathy and because they aren't as resilient. It doesn't mean they are right. I have a friend who is very dramatic even when she's in the wrong she is exceptionally distressed/sad/anxious with little understanding the other person may be upset too but not showing it in the same way.

Friend 1 may be showing less emotion, it doesn't mean she's not upset @StephPlum her kid had to change schools and she's lost 4 good friends. She may hide her upset so as not to put you in the middle...

pokebowls · 22/02/2024 07:24

pineapplesundae · 22/02/2024 01:39

Maybe friend 1 is the actual bully. Some bullies are good at manipulating people around them. It’s better to stay neutral in any case.

The bully's parent is unlikely to move their dc in year 6. That's not the actions of a bully.

pokebowls · 22/02/2024 07:25

libbylane · 22/02/2024 02:47

I don't think you should give more support to the one who is most upset. Some people are very upset as a way to get sympathy and because they aren't as resilient. It doesn't mean they are right. I have a friend who is very dramatic even when she's in the wrong she is exceptionally distressed/sad/anxious with little understanding the other person may be upset too but not showing it in the same way.

Friend 1 may be showing less emotion, it doesn't mean she's not upset @StephPlum her kid had to change schools and she's lost 4 good friends. She may hide her upset so as not to put you in the middle...

Yes. It's a case of she who cries loudest get most sympathy.

xsquared · 22/02/2024 07:26

pineapplesundae · 22/02/2024 01:39

Maybe friend 1 is the actual bully. Some bullies are good at manipulating people around them. It’s better to stay neutral in any case.

Are you friend 2?

lolacherricoke · 22/02/2024 07:48

Are you friend 2? If not I would be questioning myself. Friend 2 is not taking ownership of how her child has made another child feel and instead of apologising she is blaming f1.
What is concerning is your allowance of her to become the victim and your support of a mother who is not dealing with their child's behaviour.
If I was f1 I would back away from you all as you are not really a good friend.

themusingsofaninsomniac · 22/02/2024 08:38

Are you friend 2 or something as you seem to back up everything she is doing when everyone can clearly she she's a bit of a cow.

themusingsofaninsomniac · 22/02/2024 08:47

fournaansjeremy · 20/02/2024 17:33

Friend 2 sounds awful.

You sound like an absolute coward.

I feel terrible for Friend 1. She's the only one who can hold her head high in this toxic mess.

This.

I think friend 1 and the other two friends need to go off on their own and leave you to brown nose the bully. If you aren't her, which I still think you are, either that or you're terrified of her based on the pathetic pandering replies.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 22/02/2024 08:58

pokebowls · 22/02/2024 07:24

The bully's parent is unlikely to move their dc in year 6. That's not the actions of a bully.

Show quote history

To be fair, the bully in my DS’s class moved in yr 4 to private school. What a relief that was!

It was partly because the school finally did so much as to mention there might be an issue to his parents, and they chucked their toys out.

Stupidliefromfriend · 22/02/2024 09:16

I think you've been pretty horrible to F1. She privately dealt with a trauma.

F2 publicly fired in the WhatsApp group and you all stayed mute instead of saying "that's not fair, we are not choosing sides". Then you allowed the bullying of F1 to continue.

I'm glad you've had a change of heart and are now going to invite both. Please also ask F1 to come back to the group. F2 is abhorrent and you've allowed it.

In case it's not clear I've been F1 in this situation who kept silent while f2 busied herself doing a smear campaign. It all died down when I finally told f2 to f**k off that I no longer wished to clear the air (she was so enjoying it attention) and all of a sudden she was desperate to make up. She even admitted she had manipulated the situation to turn there others against me. Things are calm now so the group is happy but with hindsight (this was years ago) I would walk away from friendships which took sides like that. It was such an awful feeling realising I was sometimes left off the invitation list or received mine at the last minute. I would walk away now fast. I actually hope F1 does too. I don't think you care about her at all.

ClockHolly · 22/02/2024 09:25

This has been the most interesting thread I’ve read in a long time. So interesting, and disappointing, to see how people like woman 2 operate and find people to dance to their awful tune. She is a manipulative bully and sadly her child has learned that too.

@StephPlum woman 2 is not a friend, she is using you. And next time she is looking for a target, you’ll be in the running.

I know it’s easy for us to say from afar, but if you can find the courage to tell woman 2 that her behaviour isn’t acceptable and that you won’t be attending any meet ups to which friend 1 isn’t invited, it’ll save a lot of heartache later on.

Good luck.

Original poster
StephPlum · 22/02/2024 09:44

Thanks everyone
I am still reading and digesting

OP posts:
theilltemperedclavecinist · 22/02/2024 09:56

ClockHolly · 22/02/2024 09:25

This has been the most interesting thread I’ve read in a long time. So interesting, and disappointing, to see how people like woman 2 operate and find people to dance to their awful tune. She is a manipulative bully and sadly her child has learned that too.

@StephPlum woman 2 is not a friend, she is using you. And next time she is looking for a target, you’ll be in the running.

I know it’s easy for us to say from afar, but if you can find the courage to tell woman 2 that her behaviour isn’t acceptable and that you won’t be attending any meet ups to which friend 1 isn’t invited, it’ll save a lot of heartache later on.

Good luck.

This has been the most interesting thread I’ve read in a long time. So interesting, and disappointing, to see how people like woman 2 operate and find people to dance to their awful tune. She is a manipulative bully and sadly her child has learned that too.

It is interesting to see how OP (unintentionally?) muddles the narrative by worrying about who is more upset (=makes more fuss) and about the merits of the original falling out(=none of your business unless there was incontrovertible wrongdoing).

There is only one thing happening here. 2 is going all out to exclude 1 from the group, and you are giving in to it. Just stop it.

Your dilemma only has one horn.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 22/02/2024 09:58

Covermeinsunshine · 21/02/2024 23:22

Friend 2 should be utterly devastated. She dismissed her friend and her concerns over her child as simple playground stuff.

What choice did friend 1 have? Ignore her child and take the other child’s word? You know bullies rarely, if ever fess up to their behaviour…. until much later, often into adulthood.

Friend 1 still invites friend 2. Her only error was to leave the WhatsApp. Friend 2 is playing the victim, but acting the aggressor by refusing to attend anything where friend 1 goes. She is in fact the blue print of her own child…. the bully.

Add friend 1 back to the WhatsApp and tell friend 2 why.

Show quote history

I think if Friend 1 and Friend 2 have a convo with maybe OP as mediator then this could be sorted out especially if Friend 2 admits her son is the bully. Of course no one likes to hear their son is a bully, as they may be too. And even more so no one who's a Queen Bee and likes to be in charge (and quite vocal) likes to hear themselves/their DC being critiqued in this way. Friend 2 needs to show hubris (calling on my King Lear here!). If Friend 2's child is indeed bullying then has it been sorted out/is it being sorted out?

I actually feel Friend 1 may then accept Friend 2's apology/explanation and they can all move forward here, and go out together, like adults, rather than scrapping teenagers.

I do feel sorry for you OP - you do sound very much put in the middle and want do the best thing for all.

Original poster
StephPlum · 22/02/2024 10:08

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 22/02/2024 09:58

I think if Friend 1 and Friend 2 have a convo with maybe OP as mediator then this could be sorted out especially if Friend 2 admits her son is the bully. Of course no one likes to hear their son is a bully, as they may be too. And even more so no one who's a Queen Bee and likes to be in charge (and quite vocal) likes to hear themselves/their DC being critiqued in this way. Friend 2 needs to show hubris (calling on my King Lear here!). If Friend 2's child is indeed bullying then has it been sorted out/is it being sorted out?

I actually feel Friend 1 may then accept Friend 2's apology/explanation and they can all move forward here, and go out together, like adults, rather than scrapping teenagers.

I do feel sorry for you OP - you do sound very much put in the middle and want do the best thing for all.

Show quote history

Friend 2 has said she wants nothing to do with friend 1 ever again. She's been holding firm to that since the beginning and has repeated the same to everyone in our wider circle.
Friend 1 had been less fixed. Her view at the start was that she hoped to reconcile, though she wouldn't make any apologies. After a few weeks her stance was that they are adults and she'd be happy it they could just exchange niceties whenever they come across each other. I don't think that's changed, although she's pretty upset with all of us at the moment since she saw us out together.
I feel terrible that she's hurt, and more so after reading all these replies but still definitely feeling stuck in the middle

OP posts:
Changeusernameseeusernamehistory · 22/02/2024 10:13

StephPlum · 20/02/2024 13:40

I've been trying to encourage friend 1 to make more of an effort to resolve things. She is saying that she reached out a few times before Xmas with no response and beyond ensuring friend 2 isn't left out she's not really interested now in more than getting to a point where they can be polite to each other for everyone else's sake. I feel like she is being a cold about it all to be honest. She has lots of other friends so isn't missing out as much.

Friend 2 is utterly devasted, feels betrayed by friend 1 and that everyone will now think badly of her and her child. She said she is anxious all the time of bumping into friend 1.
Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset. She's definitely finding the whole thing harder than friend 1.

Friend 2 is an immature bully and you’re all falling for it

diddl · 22/02/2024 10:14

You are only stuck in the middle if you put yourself there!

Friend 2 seems so fucking horrible I wonder why everyone dances attendance on her rather than telling her to stop being so manipulative.

FilthyforFirth · 22/02/2024 10:14

What are friend 2's good points? Genuinely? I am really struggling to understand how her child being a bully has resulted in this outpouring of support from you where you defend her at every turn.

You have never answered what you will do when friend 2 bullies your child/someone else in the group?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 22/02/2024 10:15

StephPlum · 22/02/2024 10:08

Friend 2 has said she wants nothing to do with friend 1 ever again. She's been holding firm to that since the beginning and has repeated the same to everyone in our wider circle.
Friend 1 had been less fixed. Her view at the start was that she hoped to reconcile, though she wouldn't make any apologies. After a few weeks her stance was that they are adults and she'd be happy it they could just exchange niceties whenever they come across each other. I don't think that's changed, although she's pretty upset with all of us at the moment since she saw us out together.
I feel terrible that she's hurt, and more so after reading all these replies but still definitely feeling stuck in the middle

Show quote history

Sadly it looks like one of the friends will have to give in and leave the group. Or only attend once this has all died down.

Friend 2 does sound very much like a bully though, won't change, learn, typical Queen Behaviour.

Friend 1 sounds far more adult.

What do the other friends thing (apart from siding with Friend 2?)? Could you have an honest chat with Friend 2 alone and explain your situation?

I'm not sure what I'd do but I'd be tempted to shut out Friend 2.