Excluding a friend?

[StephPlum]

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5.
We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too.
Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp.
Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in).
Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2.
Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded.
If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us.
Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

You are pandering to friend two because she’s more of a drama queen. I feel sorry for friend one.

People are so "black and white" about these type of issues, but there is probably far more grey to it.

Firstly, no one is obligated to be friends with anyone else, and that includes children.

Friend 1 is saying her DC was bullied, but friend 2 is saying it was just normal playground behaviour. The school intervened, and separated them. That is ALL that is known. No one knows if it was really bullying.

Not all excluded children are bullied. Some are, some are socially awkward and struggle with friendships, some are just incompatible personalities, and others are right PITAs to be around.

And yet here everyone is jumping on the "poor friend 1" bandwagon.

Op, you obviously feel for friend 2. Not making a judgment on which friend is 'right' because that's not really possible. But the reality is that unless friend 2 is willing to try to deal with this hurt instead of hiding away, then the friendship group will be permanently split. She is forcing you to choose between her and friend 1, whereas friend 1 is not.

But friend 1 has also shown that she is happy to go for the nuclear option - lay it all out loudly, make the grand announcement that her DC is moving schools and THIS child is part of the reason why! There were other, less confrontational, ways of moving schools. (Eg, I know our DC aren't really friends anymore and while that may not be anyone's 'fault' and the school has done what it can it has left my DC unhappy and I feel this is the best move for them.)

Regardless of what happened, THEY are bringing playground dramas into the friendship group.

So really, regardless of the rights or wrongs, who do you want to be friends with? Because sadly I don't think you can be friends with both.

I’ve been in friend 1’s situation, where my DC was being bullied, and then the mum turned on me. Only difference was, we weren’t in a friendship group, but she was still the class queen bee. So I was then excluded from every gathering arranged as a class group, and many other parents wouldn’t speak to me.
The silver lining for me is that (of course, she did this to many other mums over the following years), I got out of her clutches early on, and my DC too.
Be warned, friend 2 will do the same to you eventually, and you will be treading on eggshells until that time (it seems you already are). And don’t expect friend 1 to be there for you when it happens. I want absolutely nothing to do with those mums who took the other side when it happened to me, even if they see with hindsight they chose the wrong side.
If I was friend 1, I would get rid of the lot of you.

Privately. And then they had a conversation at the start of an evening out before anyone arrived that resulted in f2 leaving in tears. I honestly don't think f1 was mean, f2 didn't like hearing that school had spoken to the children.
F2 then had a rant on the WhatsApp a few days later that she wouldn't attend a get together if f1 was coming. F1 responded , stated f2 wasn't being fair then left.
F1 had been talking to school for a while as i understand it, for quite a while before raising with f2. F2 feels that was underhanded.

I think this is a big part of it from friend 2s side. She was a bit blind sided. I think friend 1 didn't want to raise it at first and hoped school would sort

Maybe F2 should ask herself why F1 might have felt like she couldn't come to her about the problem. Then maybe she'll realise that her current behaviour is why.

Only because I was out for the evening. I'm still here, catching up.

The more you say about f2 the clearer it becomes that she is manipulative and making this all about her.

I agree. Friend 1 has been a much, much bigger person. 2 sounds like a petulant dick.

God the more I hear of F2, does she have any redeeming qualities? I'd get rid

Obviously we don’t know what really happened. The more you post, the more likely it is that F1’s dc was bullied.

Behaviour can be really subtle at this age and presuming the bullying is true, it isn’t surprising that the school didn’t see anything.

I can only talk of my experience, albeit slightly older. In lockdown 1 when the kids could go into gardens, my dd was in year 7. Dd had a friend, who on the face of it was lovely and a good friend. In many ways she was. However, as time went on it became clear she was subtly manipulating my dd and my dd was being totally controlled, doing exactly what this girl wanted. She was at my house every day and it took well over a month for alarm bells to start really ringing. As a result, I suggested to my dd that she try to widen her friendship group. This was a catalyst to an almighty showdown, which had this girl’s mother being horrible to my dd, calling me and texting me about excluding her (one play date) and ended a couple of weeks later in a physical altercation between this friend and another child. All because the child and her mother didn’t want to accept that my dd could have other friends.

Do not underestimate how crazy some parents can be about their children. From everything you’ve said this woman would do the same again and wouldn’t hesitate if your child were in the firing line. This woman does not appear to be doing her child any favours. Be very wary. As for my dd’s former friend, she was left so ill-equipped to handle everyday life that she ended up leaving school 2 years before GCSEs. To me this didn’t come as a surprise.

Friend 2 sounds like a manipulative drama queen, and you've sided with her rather than remain neutral.

They need to sort out their differences themselves but you appear to be deep in the drama, it's all very immature and toxic. If I was friend 1, I would withdraw and spend time with grown up friends.

Well said

Friend 2 should be excluded because her child is a bully.

People pleasers often see themselves as the nice polite people, but an inability to stand up for what's right and call out poor behaviour is rather cruel.

F1 left Whatsapp after friend 2 threw a fit about her attendance. Did anyone stick up for her? Did you say anything?

Sounds like F2 calls all the shots and the rest of you go along with it.

You're all bullying F1 at the end of the day.

I'm not surprised to hear F1 has other friends and F2 doesn't.

OP, a few things… I don’t think friend 2 should so upset about being blindsided, Friend 1 may have have hoped that ‘golden rule, keep it in school’ would work, parents getting involved in children’s friendship issues is not usually a good idea.

Do you acknowledge that you seem to be validating all of friends 2’s decisions and feelings and not doing the same for friend 1?

The fact that friend 2 is organising lots of things at the moment (that don’t include friend 1) is that usual for her or an attempt to push friend 1 out of the friendship group for good?

Also- it sounds like both friends have left a group chat- friend 1 left the main group chat, friend 2 left the second group chat that you set up, and whilst that one has been allowed to go dead, you are all still using the chat that friend 1 left, is there a reason why that feels ok but using the other chat once friend 2 left did not?

It sounds a lot like friend 2 is emotionally manipulative. She’s overreacted to being told quite reasonably about her child involvement in bullying, she’s refused the olive branch that has repeatedly been offered her by friend 1, she’s excessively distress and therefore garnering sympathy, but not so distressed that she isn’t able to organise lots of social event that exclude friend 1. Whilst friend 1 is being punished for merely speaking up at all, and then coping with the fallout.

Think your friendship group needs a different approach.

Friend 1 sounds like a champion. She tried dealing with the bullying in school until she had no option but to MOVE HER CHILD. She has still being willing to include friend 2 so no one was left out.
Friend 2, well, I've met many a friend 2... she's managed to scare/manipulate you all into feeling sorry for her despite her being the one making things awkward. I mean, well done her I suppose.
I would apologise to friend 1 and then leave her alone, she deserves better and as you say has other friends.
Good luck with friend 2. You backed the wrong horse there 😬

This is the most sensible post I’ve read on this thread. Also YouOkHun’s post. I would ignore most of the others.

My view FWIW is that you are too involved in this drama and should take a step back and leave them to it.

Thanks everyone. I won't organise anything without including both going forward but I'll continue to see them both 1:1. I really don't see a way forward for us a group now but think they both need to move on, maybe f2 more so.
I really do care for them both and feel sad it seems otherwise but your advice has been helpful. Thank you

I agree with most of what OrderOfTheKookaburra said apart from the point that F1 took the nuclear option and brought the drama to the group.

It would have been helpful in the OP, but follow up posts confirmed F1 spoke privately to F2 twice, and F2 was the one to go on a "rant" on WhatsApp, at which point F1 left. It was F2 who initially made this a group issue, and who continues to make this a group issue.

Regardless of the kids dramas, F2 has weaponised the friendship group to punish F1. It's just my opinion, but I couldn't pander or enable someone like that, and I would hold myself just as accountable for the hurt caused to the excluded party if I did.

It is no wonder F2 kid is a bully. They clearly take after their mother. The fact that the OP refers to a group bullying F1's child is ironic not that F2 has encouraged the OP and ia trying to sway the group to exclude F1 .

So friend 2 is the queen bee. Quelle surprise.

You’ve all been really, really shit friends to friend 1. She’s handled the bullying situation with class and you’ve all followed around after the performatively upset bully’s mother and excluded friend 1 in her say so.

I hope friend 1 bins all of you off. This thread is an embarrassment. For you. Supposedly grown women.

How is F1 failing to 'move on'? Her behaviour is completely normal. It's normal to be sad about being excluded from a friend group.

F2 is the one who is throwing tantrums because the group failed to exclude F1 sufficiently thoroughly.

You are all bullying F1 at the instigation of F2.

ETA if you carry on seeing F1 1:1, F2 will punish you for it. And if you have the idea either of them will read this thread and mend their ways, forget it. F2 will just throw another tantrum.

Poor old Friend 1. Trying to deal with an issue within school first is the correct and mature way to proceed, isn't it. No wonder Friend 2 was bemused by it.

Friend 2 is a bully and is trying to deflect the fact that her child is a bully, by trying to exclude friend 1 so that it's never mentioned again.
You need to get rid of friend 2, she's vile!

Though I do struggle to get my head around fully grown adults being in a 'friendship club' 🙄