To think there's an off/bad vibe out there?

[ARichSeamToMine]

Does the world feel "off"?
Sorry if this seems ranty, I'm really interested in the vote though.

I'm feeling like there's a weird vibe out there.

I live in London, meet a lot of people through work and am not just judging by my circle.

I've been struggling to articulate this.

I'm late 40s and have seen recessions etc before.

Was out in the City tonight and I would say bar and restaurant were busy for a Monday night, so good there. The street I was on had several completely closed offices, pubs and two gyms, which was sad.

I understand that changes in social habits have been affected by working patterns etc.

I just feel there is something else at play

I increasingly find that people are a bit...strange? We saw groups in the bar, who presumably went out together from choice, just gazing at their phones. I was never anti tech but I'm starting to wonder if there is something in the idea that it affects communication skills.

my friend is worried about her dad because he constantly watches videos of fights - this is a TV show in the US now I hear.

I know a lot of people in my age group feel very "meh" and have little enthusiasm for things, but it's not just middle age. I don't think so anyway.

I'm happy if people are happy, but starting to wonder if they are happy. I meet a lot of people who don't want to go out, are up at 5am walking a dog, they take care of themselves with a good diet, often vegan, don't drink alcohol.

I'm not saying any of these things are bad. I can see if the City is reasonably busy on a Monday night, hospitality must be recovering, which is great.

But something out in the world feels off...like people aren't interested in much.

My online creative writing group has almost no posts. The tutor is regularly cancelling workshops and looking to do online only.

I'm in touch with a couple of exes and we are staying friends but they seem to do nothing but gaming. One in particular has no friends and is not bothered.

I might get flamed but I do wonder if men are particularly prone to doing less stuff if they are single.

Again, that is fine if they are happy. But I get this sense that people aren't happy.

Social anxiety seems very much on the rise.

Just curious to know if others get this vibe.

YABU - people are fine and just living life as usual

YANBU - people are losing communication skills and becoming unhappy

Absolutely.

The insistence on conflating social contact per se and social contact with people one works with is very narrow minded.

On the one hand, I do feel that the UK is on a downward slope, but that this is just the consequence of capitalism not being sustainable in the long run and years of Tory rule (someone mentioned that it feels the same as it did in the 90s just before labour came to power and i agree with that).

But on the other hand, personally, life is good at the moment. I don't recognise what people are saying about people not socialising. I'm out all the time and so are my teenagers (well, one of them, the other is the only one of his friend group who isn't 18, so he gets to sit at home gaming whilst all his friends are out clubbing). In fact, I took them out for lunch last week and couldn't get into the cafe we wanted to go to as it was full.

I do understand that it's too expensive to eat out for a lot of people, but judging from what I've seen, there are also a lot who can still afford it.

I've always worked from home, but I don't feel isolated. I have dogs, so I meet up with people to walk them and have a coffee, or we go out for lunch. Yes, I look at my phone if I'm walking the dogs by myself. I'm not sure what's wrong with that? Is it so much worse than listening to a podcast while you walk? Just using different senses surely? I still stop and chat to people.

I mean this kindly, but quite a few of the previous posters on this thread sound depressed (I've been depressed in the past myself).

I is m as busy as before covid but things have definitely changed for the younger generation.

My dd who has autism sees her friends socially maybe once a fortnight which she is fine with as her autistic self is happy with a small amount of social Life. But her friends most of which are NT don't seem bothered either. At their age 17/18 I was out a lot more.

My ds is 16 NT and doesn't go out that much either. He socialises everyday gaming etc but actual meet ups are pretty far a few between. That may increase as he gets older but it's weird. All his peers are the same.

I also hear the uni isn't the same as it once was with online lessons still and students suffering from loneliness more than Pre pandemic. It's a shame.

I have felt that too OP.

I was in the bus the other day, in the City, and I was looking around me and everyone in the bus on their phone. Can't judge them, I'm often guilty of that as well.
I felt like we were already in a post-apocalyptic world, but it was like it was a slow apocalypse.

I'm mid 40s, I remember the hope and joy of the early internet in the late 90s / early 2000s. Even in 2009, my Twitter was just silly jokes.
Now it's all about calling each others nazis.
Nothing that was fun about the internet in the early 2000s is fun anymore.

I personally decided to take action and to limit my screen time, just to be more present. I recently started to leave my phone at home when I walk my dog. I always listen to a podcast or to some music but now I'm trying not to. And I have had some nice micro interactions with other dog owners.
My theory is that by not having a distraction, my body langage projects something more open and positive. My dog also is more focused on me.
I have friends, I'm not lonely, but it's the micro-interactions that I'm craving for, whether I'm part of them, or I just witness them.
I remember when I was younger and commuting in the Paris metro everyday, the game was to try to avoid having eye contact with people whilst observing them. Now it's the opposite.

Anyway, I don't make sense. But I feel the same. Feels like we're on the brink of disaster somehow.

PP made an interesting comment re: disconnect with skills and seasons. I think there is something in that.

At the weekend I cleaned & disinfected our greenhouse. Then Ds and I spent the afternoon potting broad bean and french bean seeds. Sowing lettuce, leek, radish, spring onion seeds.

While concentrating on that, ds started chatting (very rare). By the time we came in we were cheerful, optimistic, hungry, positive. Getting out in the fresh air, and doing something productive made a huge difference. Recognising it's (nearly) spring helps. It's as if we have something invested in the coming seasons.

Next weekend, I'll pull the bikes out of the garage and ask DS help me to give them a quick service. Exercising skills and looking forward to good weather. 🙂

What rankles is that even those saying it know it isnt true. It's the public line. Because saying they dont trust staff or that they are tied in to a 5 year building lease and feel the need to make the most of it doesnt wash.

And higher up the chain, investors have always invested in office blocks as a means of steady, reliable income. They dont want to pay to convert big central buildings into housing and deal with multiple sales or lettings.

So off we go to the office because it's a social responsibility.

I agree with @Strugglingtodomybest Capitalism is on a downward trajectory, the media is extremely negative, combined with the phone addiction that many people have developed and the after effects of lockdown. There is a definite change to communication and social habits.

There is a split between those that seem to be able to use tech responsibly and those that are constantly plugged in and are losing their ability to socialise.

It has never been more difficult to make new friends, especially if you are an adult.

I don't think it's necessarily all bad. It's good to be aware of the (potential) causes of our discontentment and maybe that can be a catalyst for change? If we realise that phones, screens, consumerism etc just don't deliver.

For me, I've been so bored with my job and all other distractions 😂 that I've finally started doing what I have always wanted to do: writing. I've recently felt so bored by literally everything: job, friends, Netflix, that it's only really left writing, which I'm now doing and on a good day even enjoying!

I was recently prescribed anti-depressants. I'm shocked at how many people seem to be on them. Almost everyone seems to know the brand I'm taking, and often they've been prescribed it themselves.

Thing is, for many people a mini lockdown/restrictions remained in place in between the official ones?

My husband had to work from home for 2 years as companies didn’t want the interruption to productivity that people being continually ill (and the liability of insisting people come to work and then getting seriously ill by catching it at the office). As a global company, he had colleagues/reportees in Europe & Asia who lost relatives and were subject to longer/stricter lockdowns that didn’t always overlap with ours - so he didn’t get to meet them in person for two years, not even to tell them they were being made redundant. Those of us with serious asthma (the type where paramedics visit) were very wary of being exposed and just because we moved into lockdown lite, had to take precautions. My kids worried sick about bringing it home to me.

Schools were hypervigilant with high absenteeism of staff/students so kids were bubbled for the full 2 years and didn’t get to mix with siblings and friends in other year groups; outside school activities were slimmed down and operated with huge restrictions that put kids off going at all (my DH ran cricket and it was difficult maintaining physical distance, disinfecting balls after every single bowl, limiting numbers so groups were smaller and some children excluded unless DH split the class and ran two sessions).

We didn’t see the ILs for 2 years because they couldn’t make the journey without several stops and were terrified of catching covid in a service station (or us catching it if we travelled and bringing it into the house); FiL developed Parkinson's in that time so felt especially vulnerable; didn’t see my dad for similar reasons as he had prostate cancer/heart attack during one of the LDs, is a diabetic and couldn’t risk being exposed to anything the kids might be carrying.

DH’s BFF of 40 years was diagnosed with a brain tumour at the start of lockdown and due to chemo etc couldn’t see us. We saw him once, a month before he died, after 2 years.

So whilst the official lockdowns were not for 2 years, the hysteria and restrictions remained in place for that period until vaccinations began to roll out - whether we personally felt it was justified or not.

I do feel that in that time people became very introspective and self-orientated but also justifiably p*ssed off at the mismanagement of it all by the govt and the blatant disregard of restrictions by those enforcing them - and this is shown in the way they behave now. People do seem more curt and irritable, shop and wait staff service is often offhand and indifferent, app ordering in pubs means less contact with staff, less justification for tipping, the move to cashless transactions encouraged by covid means delivery people get shafted especially now they’re on minimum wages in a CoL crisis.

I know not everyone was impacted this way, but I know many people who were.

I think it’s a mix of things - Covid and lockdown , 24/7 news - there is no let up from awareness of the horror in the world at the moment , gaming/ social media . My family are pretty happy I think - but we are all quite introverted anyway .

In a world where people are realising they may well have to fight for their very survival , self preservation and selfishness will take over - it’s a natural instinct.

I said this to my partner at the weekend - with all the boarded up shops etc it really feels like late 80s/early 90s. They agree.

I do know what you mean, although I don't notice it in my own friends very much - we're all too busy working while parenting young children. But there is a different feel to society as a whole nowadays, and I especially notice it in town centres at night - there's just no-one around. I was out last Friday night, walking through town after a late appointment. 9pm on a Friday night and no big groups of young people, just a few stragglers and a couple of very drunk young men. Not even any teenagers outside MacDonalds. It's weird.

I strongly believe it's linked to the collective trauma of Covid being totally ignored by the government. We all suddenly realised that they had no plan, no idea what to do, and didn't care about us plebs at all. They had parties and made deals for their mates while we sat at home on our own. So of course everyone feels a bit more selfish, a bit less keen on socialising and a bit more angry. We've realised it's everyone for themselves. After WWII there was a huge effort to get the country back on track. We needed to feel like a society again after Covid, and nothing happened.

Add in the other consequence of years of Tory government - no funding for council and social services - and everything is just shit. The country is a mess, the roads are so bad they're damaging our cars, there's litter everywhere, nothing works properly, and you know if you get ill the NHS might struggle to make you better.

I don't believe Labour will be a magic bullet which will make everything better, obviously. But I do think they will prioritise spending in the right areas and generally make things a bit less shit.

You've articulated so much of how I feel about the world.

There are so many reasons for this "off vibe". The mutilation of the country by the current government, the lack of any hopeful narrative for the opposition (soon to be future government). IMO, that feeds down to the wider society and a general sense of apathy and selfishness.

But I think that selfishness is also a cultural thing. We've created a society where you're expected to hustle constantly and never sit still or be content. The economy doesn't work if everybody is content with what they have; it demands displeasure so that people grind harder and spend more money. And that language filters into many other areas such as wellness - "I'm doing me" "I'm living my best life." We prioritise things that benefit the individual and give less value to things that benefit society at large and then wonder why nothing's working anymore.

Then there's tech, gaming, social media. We live in an era where people watch other people clean and tidy their houses... Each to their own and what people do with their time is their own business but this stuff has become addictive. Just as games are now created to manipulate people into sinking entire days into playing the same thing over and over, so too is SM and influencer platforms. People are watching influencers doing things they themselves can and should be doing.

We live in very strange times indeed and I wonder if there will be a breaking point or whether we'll simply descend deeper.

I haven't experienced this in my social circle. We are all busy with work and kids and hobbies. I'm outdoors loads. No gaming really around here. I do keep in touch with people via social media/messaging, but same as always (all of our long-term friends live far away, so that's been the only way to keep in touch really for over a decade). We are in our 40s now, so more health conscious - it's been a long time since we were out late at pubs/clubs, so yes, more likely to be up early for a run or dog walk. I've always enjoyed my own company.

I do think communication has changed though. We communicate via tech. So staring at your phone when out and about, isn't avoiding communication. It's communicating with someone often. Our social networks are less geographically constrained now and more built around common values and interests. Some of the people I speak to most often (other than dh and dc who live with me) are via computer or smart phone and about common interests (work and hobbies) but who don't live close to me. That's okay. If anything, it means that people can find others like themselves rather than simply people who live next door.

Yes, while I think things are changing in the world, they have always changed. Imagine what life must have been like during the 1st or 2nd World War or the Cold War. People would have thought the end was coming. Or when the first mobile phones were sold - the thought of people being able to reach you at any time was mind blowing. Or with the advent of the Internet. Things have changed, but I don't know that they are changing so rapidly now compared to the massive changes throughout history that this period is something special that is different from all the other times. But everything always seems big and scary when you're in it.

All that said, things around here seem to be going on as they always have, pubs and restaurants are busy, cinema is busy as ever, lots of people out and about doing sports or outdoor pursuits, swimming, dog walks, beach.

Is this part of the answer?
https://delaysmartphones.org.uk/
and also more adults consciously deciding to put down their smart phones?

I do feel that in that time people became very introspective and self-orientated but also justifiably p*ssed off at the mismanagement of it all by the govt and the blatant disregard of restrictions by those enforcing them

I think this is a great point. While I'm still out and about a lot, very social etc, I definitely feel more alienated from institutions and that's a consequence of lockdown and all the rule breaking.

Part of this, in my circle, is the knowledge that our decision to continue seeing each other and prioritise social networks for much of the restrictions period is probably one of the reasons we're still well connected and not experiencing social issues now.

Things have certainly changed for the worse since covid. People definitely seem more selfish, thoughtless and aggressive to me. It’s probably a list of cumulative factors though - stress, job losses, stagnant wages, housing crises etc fuelled by tech and social media in particular.

Times change though. The smoking ban killed a lot of the pubs as well. Whilst I enjoyed being able to get public transport without smelling cigarettes or coming home from the pub without fag burn in my clothes and hair reeking, it really did kill off the pubs. People started socialising more with friends at home with cheap supermarket alcohol, or the smokers were outside every 5 minutes having a chat leaving the non smoker (usually me) on their own in the pub.

The mobile phones were not far behind for the next phase.

The nhs is in trouble. Schools have a recruitment problem and kids are going off the rails, being taught by a succession of cover staff not qualified in that subject. No respect for staff, parents or authority. There is a sense the world is doomed. War and trouble everywhere you turn. Corrupt and aging politicians and it’s obvious that whoever gets in won’t be able to fix the mess we are in.

Don’t forget all the talk of AI and its impact on future jobs. Kids are having to take that into account when they choose careers. Uni debt is huge and there are so many graduates not able to get traditional graduate careers due to the sheer volume going through the system. No chance of buying a house for a long time - if at all.

And that’s all without the impact of tech on socialising and the COL crisis.

Im depressed just writing that. What do the young have to look forward to?

I have an allotment. I spend a lot of time there, regardless of the season, and it's hugely beneficial for my physical and mental health. I've also made many friends there.

I also have a mate who is obsessed with getting the latest tech, spends a fortune every year in the Apple store, is glued to his phone. He's not interested in anything unless it's expensive or cool. He's barely 45, morbidly obese, unhealthy, unhappy, uses sex with strangers to 'manage' his issues. Is obsessed with having 'stuff' and spends money like water - tech, clothes, interiors, holidays. Everything has to cost a small fortune and be perfect. I love him but, frankly, he's a mess.

He recently called me a 'sad old woman' for having an allotment. One of us is definitely sad, but it's not me.

You are right OP.

I notice a changed attitude on the roads since COVID. More aggression particularly of a misogynistic nature but just generally more incidence of intimidation via tailgating, overtaking on the inside on motorways etc. I have to drive fractionally more slowly at the moment due to a health issue and this has cause me to encounter some very aggressive, bullying behaviours. I am a good, experienced driver who is always polite and considerate to others, however frustrating their driving may be. Some people seem to have so little patience plus a total disregard for the safety or wellbeing of others.

Yes, I do know exactly what you mean . We were out on a Friday making way back from looking after our DGC in york for half term and everywhere was so quiet . We passed through Manchester . I said to DH things just aren't picking up socially are they ? When we were young Friday night was the best night out . Is it because things are just so expensive now ? Or as you say everyone is scrolling Instead? I don't know, but I felt I should comment because I'd noticed exactly the same.

👏 agree with so many posts on this thread.
so much division which has been perpetrated by the government & a lot of the media divide & conquer narrative which deflects from the utter carnage that is going on daily with public services/health/education/ housing/poverty the criminal amounts of money wasted the list could go on & on, I must admit I’m throughly depressed & cannot see very much changing anytime soon, unless we have a complete change of mindset that a fair & more even distribution of wealth invest in services/infrastructure, we need bravery vision integrity from politicians.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with the growing wealth gap. Ordinary working people are coping with a fall in their standards of living to the point of desperation. The jobs market is horrible with employers using zero hours contracts or low hours contracts and living costs have gone up ridiculously across the board. Now the state pension age is going up again and many people don't know how they will manage to work until they are 71. Getting to see a doctor is practically impossible and hospitals are in chaos. This government spent an obscene amount of money during covid but doesn't seem to care that those "key workers" as we called them, are struggling to eat and pay the bills. Renting is more miserable than ever and it is difficult for people to imagine that they will ever own their own home. There are those that have and those that will never have no matter how hard they try. I think there is a resentment towards those that are doing ok. People need help and it needs to come firstly from government as leaving everything to a capitalist market is too harsh. We as a society need to make life better from the bottom up and we will all benefit. I think that people are struggling to see hope for the future.

Now even traditionally cheap hobbies come with a whole load of necessities that previously weren’t. I knitted in the 1980/90s and all I had were needles, wool and patterns. Now there is a whole industry of items that are sold as necessities for beginners.

Previously if I wanted to try some craft or another I’d go to the library, get a book out and have a go improvising with what we had in the house. Now I end up watching endless videos, spend a fortune on supplies and never get started because I’ve confused myself of the best way to do it. It’s not important in the scheme of things but it just adds to the feeling of apathy and hopelessness.