To ask what makes you middle class?

[Wantobeareader]

I am not from the UK so not very familiar with these class definitions (which personally I cannot stand) but I am curious to understand what people mean with MC. I thought it was a term referred to the fairly wealthy but apparently lots of people and incomes seem to fall into that categories.
So, how would you define Middle Class? Feel free to type a description of a typical MC person you can think of :)

Absolutely.

Definitely MC.

In Ireland and I think it’s very different here than the uk. The uk what most people describe as middle for me I’d probably think of as the gentry!
But … Growing up we lived in a nice area (now unaffordable for most of Ireland), ate branded foods, got clothes whenever (and sometimes from department stores but without it being a big fuss). We all played sports. I thought we were middle class until I started horse riding and the owner of the stables asked did I want a job to help with the cost of lessons (I took the job but I was thinking er what so maybe I had notions😅). It was then I realised everyone was driving land rovers and huge cars and had ridiculously expensive riding gear and were on track to buying their own horses, had holiday homes etc. wait. I’m confused. What were we then? They were rich, weren’t they?

It's a strange one. We were discussing it in work (lightly!). It's about value and behaviours more than disposable income imo. Things like cooking from scratch and seeing parents do that. Knowing how to speak correctly. Knowing your table manners. Knowledge about other cultures/beliefs. 'Real' possessions and relationships rather than expensive showy glitz. You can be middle/upper class in a modest home and have better manners and know-how than a millionaire in a McMansion.

I know women who are not any of the things you listed, but married men who were. So now have their name on mortgage etc and have a nicer lifestyle but their roots are working class.

Wondering if they are considered middle class by de-fault.

Not sure I agree with this. My parents firmly WC, dad in particular 1st gen immigrant and grew up pretty poor.

However, by the time I was born (the eldest of 3) we lived in a 4 bed detached house with a huge garden in the posh part of town in the SE.

We never went on package holidays, went to museums, ate round the dinner table, was an expectation that we would all go to uni.

My dad worked in insurance, had a secretary, led a team etc my mum was part time around childcare. We had two cars, able to go on school trips etc

I'm struggling to see how I wasnt a middle class child? My children recieve all of the above and more as myself and DH are both full time in professional jobs, so they are firmly middle class.

I'm not being defensive, it honestly doesnt matter! But I do find the concept of not being able to move class interesting.

Despite being poor and WC I would say my das grew up with quite a bit of social capital - a perk of being born in London I guess!

Things that sometimes aren't obvious (like salary) are a must I think. You can have a nice house and a big salary but still be working class. I think it goes back to whether your parents were professionals (desk/ management rather than manual/ blue collar), degree educated.
Also accent is a huge giveaway.
Plus attitude, I feel like bragging in any way shape or form is a big huge no no. Bragging or feeling too proud of yourself is a working class trait (not that there's anything wrong with it just answering honestly)

*cultural capital

My extended family are all agreed the TV should not be the focal point in a room - that's MC, WC is the biggest tv you can afford (which is what we have!) 😅

Any kind of chip on your shoulder about people being posh or getting ideas above their station, that's WC. I guess MC is the reverse, when you drive down certain roads and screw up your face like Hyacinth Bucket visiting her sister 😂

You earn almost £7k+ a month with no mortgage and you consider yourself working class?? This has to be a joke?

It’s complicated, because it’s not just about money. It’s also about family background, education (both the level of education and where a person was educated) and job type. Two examples to illustrate my point.

1, Gary works as a plumber. His dad was also a plumber. He attended his local state school which he left aged 16 with a handful of GCSEs. He then took an apprenticeship & trained at his local further education college. He is self employed, he works very long hours in what can be a dirty & physically demanding job & earns £80k. He considers himself to be working class, and very proudly so.

2, Charlotte works as a university lecturer. Her parents paid for her to attend a private school, as their parents had done for them. She graduated from a prestigious university, as did her parents. Working in academia doesn’t pay particularly well, but the holidays are long, the hours are reasonable, and the working environment is civilised. She earns £45k. She dislikes talking about class or money, but if pushed she would agree that she is middle class.

We go to France glamping & can't afford something like Dubai or Disneyland

Don't worry - glamping is far more MC than either Dubai or Disneyland

@Notamum12345577 What you say doesn't make sense, not just because it is an illogical argument, but also because social mobility does not conform to your rigid generational timescales.

OP, the outdated WC/MC etc definitions are inadequate for expressing the nuances and effects of social mobility, so socio-economic groupings are better indicators of differences in a population. This also eliminates self identification with a group you are no longer a part of.

Bbc quiz has me and DH as middle class. We don't have a degree between us and earn very average (actual average not MN average) salaries.

I don't really identify as either working class or middle class, I'm not really sure what the point of defining class is...??

Yikes. Then the whole of Asia, huge parts of Northern and Eastern Europe and all the Middle East are all working class then.

I was just thinking the same about middle class people who might marry into the upper class aristocracy. As I think it’s pretty much impossible to climb your way from MC to aristocracy in the way it is to climb from WC to MC.

An then I started thinking about that excellent Oniy Fools and Horses episode where Rodney dates a ‘Lady’ 🤣

Real food, cooked from scratch. Nothing out of tins or packets.
Educated, including parents, who were educated proressionals.
Inherited jewellery.
Impeccable manners.
Wine only drunk with meals, which are breakfast, lunch and supper, unless super formal or an official dinner party.

I also think you can change class. Both my parents were working class, grew up in council housing, their parents worked in manual jobs, grandmothers worked even after marriage (common for WC women but not mc women at the time). But both had parents who believed in education, and both went to university. They went on to buy a house, and both consider themselves middle class. Both their children (including me!) have masters degrees but neither us use our degrees in our work, have both bought small flats, don't own cars and earn less than the national average. I would consider us as their children to be middle class. However, our dd doesn't have the same lifestyle as her mc classmates who go on fancy holidays, live in big houses, have had expensive music lessons etc. So maybe we're lower middle class? Although I always associate that with aspiration and 'keeping up with the jones' which we certainly don't do. It's very confusing!

I was just thinking the same about middle class people who might marry into the upper class aristocracy. As I think it’s pretty much impossible to climb your way from MC to aristocracy in the way it is to climb from WC to MC.

An then I started thinking about that excellent Oniy Fools and Horses episode where Rodney dates a ‘Lady’ 🤣

Does an apprenticeship class as advanced education? I'm assuming you will say no. But then how does a plumber earning £90k fit your description. Answer. It doesn't. Your description is outdated and big linger works.

Wine only drunk with meals

Or as an aperitif

Wondering if they are considered middle class by de-fault.

No, they're not.

Completely agree with this.

Our joint earnings are £125k, my DP is the high earner but does a manual job. I suppose because he has trade and it's considered very niche (only around 16 people in the country do the same job) they can command a high wage.

Neither of us are university educated and we live in one of the poorest parts of the country. It's just been hard graft and over the years we've been lucky that his wage has substantially increased due to the lack of skilled workers in his industry and the job being quite risky.

We wouldn't move away now because our life and families are here but we will always be working class no matter how much money we have.

There's always the expectation that university equals a good wage and comfortable life but there's a lot to be said for skilled tradespeople as well. I don't think wages define class anymore, they played a bigger part back in the day but life has changed since then.

@LipstickLil

Don't worry - glamping is far more MC than either Dubai or Disneyland

Phew that's a relief 😅

Private school is a red herring as only 6.5% of the population are privately educated.

Income is not necessarily a descriptor as most people would say a plumber/electrician or other trade is WC yet they can and frequently way out earn jobs that would be considered MC
Conversely lecturers, scientists and teachers are all considered MC requiring a degree and often more yet they often earn between £30-45k

It's far more nuanced than it used to be and pretty much doesn't make sense anymore

The package holiday thing is really odd.