To ask what makes you middle class?

[Wantobeareader]

I am not from the UK so not very familiar with these class definitions (which personally I cannot stand) but I am curious to understand what people mean with MC. I thought it was a term referred to the fairly wealthy but apparently lots of people and incomes seem to fall into that categories.
So, how would you define Middle Class? Feel free to type a description of a typical MC person you can think of :)

Middle class: a social group that consists of well-educated people, such as doctors, lawyers, and teachers, who have good jobs and are not poor, but are not very rich.

Working class: belonging to a social group that consists of people who earn less than other groups, often being paid only for the hours or days that they work, and who usually do physical work rather than work for which you need an advanced education.

This is the dictionary definition: the social group between the upper and working classes, including professional and business people and their families.

In reality, it's complicated, because how you see yourself and how others see you may be two different things. Also, there are lots of things that are seen as the preserve of the middle classes, but just because you shop at Waitrose or have a university degree it doesn't mean that you're MC. It's a subtle thing and there are lots of indicators of class from where people holiday to what they eat, how they speak, how they choose to spend their leisure time, and many, many more. But one thing is for sure - the amount of money you make/have doesn't determine your social class.

So only MC jobs are 'good jobs' ?

Anyone can become more educated or earn more than their parents, but class is something else. I think the deciding factor is the way you were brought up. To me MC means at least some inherited wealth and privilege, including cultural capital, plus inherited attitudes including preoccupations with getting ahead, social status and material 'success', usually due to the weight of family and social expectations. This is the major difference I've observed between my MC and WC friends, anyway.

@bringmorewashing I hve received all
of the above growing up but my parents are both WC.
Me and my siblings all have masters degrees and our parents have always pushed us to higher education, get a good job etc

It’s nothing to do with education or how many books you have read. My dad read more than anyone I knew and knew loads about art and science and all sorts. However he wasn’t middle class because he lived in a council house, ate his tea in front of the telly, loved a cheap package to Spain and went to the pub with the lads twice a week religiously. 😂
Middle class people, as far as I can tell, care very deeply what other people think of their houses/ clothes/ food/ baby names/ everything. They pursue “ good taste” and “culture” and avoid vulgarity. They save, obsessively, and prioritise retirement over everything, but are quite conservative with investments and capital. They never bet against the house.
They expect their children to follow in their footsteps by choosing academic study and safe jobs. I think it must be quite a tight, restrictive existence really. So many rules!

I would say MC

Those definitions are taken from the dictionary.

You self identify in by setting criteria that you personally meet (which is variously related to income, occupation, education or 'values' whichever works best for you really as there is no consensus.) It's also usual to create a further list of criteria of what is not MC. You then use this to tell other people who want to identify as MC that they can't.

I would think I'm middle class

No inherited wealth
No preoccupation with material success or social status - I find people quite funny about material stuff

No family pressure or expectations
Professional role but not high paid ( poverty by mn standards )

Don't give a toss about what other people thought of dd name, don't worry about looks and culture

It is however very true that I am university educated and I would never bet against the house though - far too terrified of having to live in the kind of home I started out in !

I don't mean to suggest WC parents don't push their kids to succeed. The difference is the.motivation for encouraging/helping your kids to do well, I think. For MC parents there seems to be a lot of concern with how things look to others, with making sure their kids choose the 'right' uni, job, partner, etc, usually along the same lines as the parent's choices. It seems to be all about protecting status and security. WC parents are more likely to encourage their kids to do the complete opposite to them to reach their potential.

This is such inverse snobbery with a whole bunch of prejudice crammed in. You’re not a shit and restrictive or person just because you meet criteria for MC and have a nice house.

No one is saying just because you tick off one box of a classic MC person is makes you solidly MC. The grey areas and slope of the bell curve are obviously huge, as with many labels in life.

Save for being a homeowner, my dad was also all the things you list and would have been put in the MC bracket. He also wished for great things for me and cared about my schooling so I would have opportunity, but never dictated what I did in life. He wasn’t a shit person for being MC and WC people aren’t automatically more decent either.

You’re describing a personality type. Not a class.

Yes I agree with this - I know plenty of well read WC people and it is nothing to do with ability to get good jobs (other than possibly not being part of the Old Boys Network - i.e private school). Middle Class is the only class that has been split into 3 groups - Lower Middle, Middle, Upper Middle. I suspect this is why there is a lot of "keeping up with the Jonses' " and need to have rules for pronunciations, to ensure they stick to their tier or are striving up.

OK great.

Or maybe you just live in an area where the pavements are literally smeared with dog poo?

Shower before work = middle class
Shower after work = working class
Shower before and after work = confused class
No shower = filthy rich

I think working class and middle class are outmoded classifications, as comparatively few people nowadays do the kind of manual, labouring or low skills work that would have been the traditional 'working class'. There is the Approximated Social Grade used by the census, or you could look at the 7 social classifications used in this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-now-has-7-social-classes-and-working-class-is-a-dwindling-breed-8557894.html

Class is also not static. You can be born to parents who belong to one group and you yourself can move into another group. Those posters with top degrees and detached houses and interests in theatre and NT properties are no longer members of the 'working class', though they may have been born into a working class family.

My husband's an example - very traditional working class background (father a labourer, mother a part-time shop assistant, no education beyond 14), but he went to a well-known university, got a professional job, married a woman with a different economic but similar educational background and now would fit into the 'elite' category in terms of earnings and interests. But he's still got roots in a very different 'class'.

Perhaps, but it's a pretty common personality type I've encountered exclusively among MC people!

I avoid the whole discussion. I actually chuckle to myself when people refer to themselves as middle class. I'm often told that I'm middle class by other people, but I'm not having it.
Our house, income, cars, lifestyle, cultural memberships and pursuits would put us firmly in middle class. My kids might be middle class and my DH of 25 years probably is. I'm not though.

Hmm I disagree re shoes. I find people on lower wages who often can't afford to buy new carpets as often work harder at keeping them nice. Same with most things. If you can't afford to replace it you take better care of it.

Or perhaps you assume that if someone has that personality they are middle class ?

It is more about what class your parents were in. I think wc parents might produce dc who have a mc lifestyle, but then if replicating this for their dc, they would then be mc.
There is definitely more social mobility now, which explains the self identified wc, but with the newly acquired trappings of mc. In the past, wc could never really have crossed the divide that easily so I think it was easier to see the group divisions and their characteristics. I'd recommend watching an episode of The Royle Family op, the one where it's Christmas and the son brings his girlfriend and her parents over. The family thinks they are super posh, but they are definitely still wc, however new money. It's funny because the dad looks down on the Royle family, but they are the same really.

@Wantobeareader , it's very nuanced, and as much about previous generations as your current situation. Education, land/house ownership, cultural capital, aspiration.

"Watching the English" by Kate Fox is a good book that investigates, and tries to define, the English class system. Jeremy Paxman's "The English" too, because this obsessing with social class does seem to be particularly English.

I find it difficult to define, but I do know that DH and I are absolutely middle class, me less so than him but still solidly there.

Both privately educated, DH at boarding school, me at an all girls day school. Both his parents were also privately educated and went to uni. My dad went to a secondary modern and left school at 16 but went into an office job. My mum was from a much poorer background but went to grammar school.and then to teacher training college.

DH and I aren't particularly well paid. I'm a social worker and he works for a charity. We have a mortgage. Our dc went to the local comprehensive. But we've given them considerable cultural capital. We've dragged then round museums, nd round NT properties, we've always sat round the table for meals - no screens allowed. Never been on a package holiday but have had holidays walking in the Alps etc.

DS2 has been to uni and is now working in a professional job. So he will also be MC.

DS1 is interesting in that he's had the MC upbringing but chose not to go to uni and went to work instead. He then decided to do an apprenticeship as a mechanic, so very much a traditional WC profession.