To ask what makes you middle class?

[Wantobeareader]

I am not from the UK so not very familiar with these class definitions (which personally I cannot stand) but I am curious to understand what people mean with MC. I thought it was a term referred to the fairly wealthy but apparently lots of people and incomes seem to fall into that categories.
So, how would you define Middle Class? Feel free to type a description of a typical MC person you can think of :)

@Wantobeareader you’re ‘forrin’, that’s all 😂 as am I.
Where I come from we don’t have a class system, unless you’re old aristocracy or something, but even then, your kids will still go to the same school as mine.

Took me a long time to get my head around this class system malarkey, but realised it’s totally futile: people are people, the difference is in how much or little of an arsehole you are, basically. I was told it’s very middle class of me to dress DD in Boden and have 2-3 foreign holidays, to go to the theatre and opera, to read and to speak several languages, to be a professional and live in a ‘posh’ area.

I really don’t bother with any of that.
Why do you ask?

And one could easily put the same judgement on WC people – that they find certain pursuits ‘wanky’ or ‘poncy’, or that they more heavily subscribe to gender-based roles and expectations. Is any of that really true? Is it any better?

Things have changed and it's hard to apply the old standards. However, historically if you were middle class you would use the English language correctly, eg not say "we was sat on the bus" although a mild regional accent would be acceptable.

You would know what cutlery to use when dining out and would not be fazed by making polite conversation with a variety of people. Your manners would (generally) be impecable. You would have a higher standard of education and general knowledge than the working classes. You would not read tabloid newspapers or watch programmes like Love Island.

You would be highly unlikely to go on holiday to an all inclusive in Benidorm and you would be more likely to take your children to castles and museums than the nearest water park.

Questions about which social class one may be are usually asked by the middle class or those aspiring to be middle class. The upper class (aristocracy) know what they are, and the 'underclass' (a newer term which describes an age old concept) know what they are.

In British history, there has traditionally been a division between the aristocracy and the rest (those whose service or lands are owned by the aristocracy). Then, somewhere between William the 1st and Queen Victoria, the merchant classes and middle classes (a troublesome lot) began to challenge the order a little. A farmer called Olly really rocked the boat in the 17th century, indeed the Civil War was a class war, and although we got a republic, we found Olly a bit too big for his boots an no-one really liked him, so we get a real king back on the throne. You see, there is something about having a monarch and an aristocracy that keeps everyone else in their place

With Victoria, the working classes (very useful in the Industrial Revolution and as cannon fodder for the Empire) began to gain some nominal power, and some autonomy (what with Chartism and all that). They even began owning houses and attending classes on how to be clever.

The 20th and 21st centuries have brought greater spending power to all classes (except the underclass) and legislation makes it illegal for us not to be equal, but 'class' is, funnily enough, not a protected characteristic (and neither is accent which some people assume is an indicator of 'class').

So, back to the question of 'What the hell is middle class'? I would suggest that today, it is not about what your daddy does (an old measure of class) nor the pedigree if public school educated ancestors. It is all abut money and how rich you are, just as it was when the merchant classes rose.

Not necessary to get annoyed. A discussion is characterised by people interjecting differing opinions.

I know this is about feeling middle class, but just to point out you cannot be middle class unless your parents were. If they were working class, you may yourself now have all the things that make you middle class, but you will still be working class. Your children though, they will be middle class.

I don’t think it’s that basic Didimum
I think plenty of people are wankers but there aren’t many activities I would describe as wanky. Most things are neutral. It’s maybe the intention behind some of the choices mc people make that can come across as a bit overly concerned with doing the correct thing, as in the things that fit with the ideal of mc taste.

Exactly. My point is that I’m describing a stereotype, just as people here are describing a MC stereotype. You can’t apply something that basic to MC people either.

This gets very tricky with huge grey areas though.

You must see that if your first and second sentences are true, your third cannot be?

Like didimum said, those are the main indicators. Your parents would have had professional roles and likely your grandparents too. It’s become complicated though now for a number of reasons. A lot of working class people have been given the opportunity to go to university. There are well-paid jobs offering some of the lifestyle of MC are not solely professional jobs anymore - you don’t need to be a doctor, solicitor, teacher, accountant to earn a good salary you can be a senior in communications and marketing or operations. House prices have prices many MC people out of the market.

On paper, DH and I are MC. We are both university educated with a masters and professional qualifications between us. We have jobs paying above the average salary, DH in a professional role and me in one of those not-professional but still pays reasonably roles. We are homeowners (mortgaged) but it’s a large 4 bed detached house, on a nice estate. We enjoy cultural interests of MC (along with some typically WC interests). However, we both grew up WC. My mum was a single parent working in administrative roles, she is degree educated but she did it part time when I was young. My mum’s family have worked in retail, trades, admin. We couldn’t always afford holidays. We couldn’t always afford food. DH was similar, he grew up sharing a room with his brother in a 2 bed council flat. We both went to university and that has given us the opportunity to gain access to a more a MC lifestyle and look MC on paper but we don’t really feel it. A MC person would have had a different upbringing to us and that’s ingrained into you so you’re never fully MC. But we don’t fit in with WC people we grew up with. There are a lot of people in this group which is why you have people saying they are still WC.

The BBC has a tool somewhere that actually has about 9 groups and brings in some of that nuance.

I’m from a WC background and my DH is from a MC one, when I first met his large family one Christmas these were the things I noticed.

They liked going out on a lot of walks.

They wore the same clothes often where as I wasn’t used to this and the clothes were in dull colours such as navy or dark grey.

They had good jobs but often said that were poor and didn’t seem to have much fun money.

They were all slim

They had wine at lunch time.

Its funny the things I noticed.

In your dreams.

Seriously what is it with clearly now mc people desperate to think of themselves as still working class? It doesn't make you better or more authentic or whatever you think it does. It just makes you dishonest.

Folks, you need the works of Dame Jilly Cooper to truly educate you. Yes, some of the ideas are a bit dated but she correctly identifies that middle class includes lower middle, middle middle and upper middle.
Lower middle is cautious, small C conservative and aspirational - very much "shoes off at the door". Upper middle are much more confident and wouldn't give two hoots about shoes.
It's complicated.....

Lots of technically WC people do very MC things like watch things like Paddington and Strictly Come Dancing, eat smoked salmon and call their kids 'darling'...

SO, I think probably the only fair factor is what parents you grew up with. If you had parents who had manual or service industry jobs growing up then you're WC.

If you had parents who were qualified in something other than manual trade, you're MC.

In my experience even people who say they had a uni-educated parent but they were long term unemployed or abusive or whatever, they usually still have MC ways

Not "funny" just confirmation bias. And if anyone posted a funny things they notice about wc people" they'd be slaughtered.

My mc Run and Fly red tartan dungarees would like a word..,

Huh? They don't sound remotely annoyed

Also this is perfect! Working class families just don't go on Christmas walks 😂

I remember Alison Steadman in Life is Sweet shouting "what do you mean you thought I'd gone for a walk? I've never been on for a walk in my life!"

@5128gap I believe it can. To simplify, the class you are in depends on how you were brought up. If you were brought up working class, you will always be WC. If your WC parents did well for themselves financially and brought you up middle class, you will be middle class.

That is a sarcastic ‘OK great’ if ever I read one.

No not really about money, more of a cultural capital thing. Although typically the middle classes are wealthier

I like your top.

UC - thank you I know the designer
MC - thank you , how lovely of you to say.
WC - yeah it’s 2.99 in H&M

Hear, fucking hear. The level of reverse snobbery around here is sickening.

I earn 20k more than the UK average in a skilled job. But all that matters by the looks of it is that I live in social housing, so according to the BBC questionnaire I don’t even make ‘standard’ working class, they said I was a prole 🤣

For me it's more about cultural capital than income. We don't earn loads as teachers & drive really old cars. Can't afford to go abroad on a package holiday. No savings.

It's things like speaking another language, playing an instrument, going to museums, being well read, university education.

I think the lines are blurry though. We go to France glamping & can't afford something like Dubai or Disneyland - but I wouldn't want that anyway. We make do with a tiny old TV but wouldn't want a huge cinema style screen on the wall.