To think if a male manager refuses to talk about women’s health..

[LeopardWellies]

Then they actually should not be a manager?!

For background, I was finally diagnosed with endometriosis after 20 odd years of horrific periods and being fobbed off by various GPs and nurses. I chose to have a laparoscopy and before I went off work my manager just would not talk about it with me and would say “oh it’s personal, you don’t need to tell me”.

In other words, I don’t want to talk about your periods because I am a man-child.

This is a rhetorical Q because I know I am not unreasonable in my opinion 🤣

I also have endometriosis and took forever to get diagnosed too so I feel your pain (literally). Current male manager knows most of the details - 3 laparoscopies in current role, 2 previously - except some I skirt around deliberately eg I’m having a ‘treatment’ rather than I’m getting a coil fitted, but he’s been so supportive despite being slightly awkward in every day life usually (we are both on the spectrum)

However in a previous role I was taken through a sickness disciplinary process - female managers, male HR rep - who asked me ‘what was I going to do to avoid this happening again?’ And ‘do you need to change your lifestyle to make yourself better’ - then admitted he’d done no research whatsoever on my condition because it was ‘women’s things’ - and he was in HR!

To be honest, I'd be quite vague about this sort of condition (whether my manager was male or female) and just be factual about when the operation was, how much time I'd need off etc.
Maybe I'm a prude or squeamish or whatever but if I was a manager and a male colleague was having an operation on his testicles or something, I'd probably just feel like I didn't need too much information!
You say you want support from him but what do you actually mean? So long as he's happy to give you time off for appointments, surgery, recovery etc then that's enough, isn't it?

Yes, I read all your posts @LeopardWellies

I chose to have a laparoscopy and before I went off work my manager just would not talk about it with me and would say “oh it’s personal, you don’t need to tell me*

"It" being what?
Laparoscopy?
Endo?
Time off?

Whichever, he was very professional and I'd say kind, letting you know that it was fine, he didn't need details.

"But because he refused to talk about it he had no idea that I would even be off for 4 weeks, let alone 6."

But you didn't know either? And depending on your organisation, it's likely to be HR that you deal with, who deal with the practicalities of someone being off for quite a while. Again, nothing unprofessional there.

he shut down any initial conversation, I’m obviously going to be less likely to ask for help in future..

I'm sure if you want to talk about pertinent and professional problems, it will be fine. Your periods- perhaps less so.

I just dealt with HR after that.

Better late than never.

He didn’t know I would be back on the day I came back, then didn’t speak to me directly for 3 weeks

Had you told HR? Him?

And I wasn’t going to tell him anything anyway. But to say “that’s private” and shut the convo down without asking how long I need off etc is just so o
dd to me.

Unless he is in charge of allocating sick leave, to ask you how long you would need off is very unprofessional.

Yes I would. I would just want to know your last day and roughly when you’d be back. I’m not interested in any medical details, whether that’s a knee op or a full sex change.

Well yes, you are a dafty - a simple email would have solved nearly all the issues you have with this manager.

Hi Manager,

I’m going to be off from x to x after an operation. First day back will be x unless more time is needed. I’m supplying HR with all doctors notes and they have all relevant information if you need more details.

I may need some accommodations and support on my return to work and will follow up on that nearer the time.

LeopardWellies

Then the week before you come back send an email reminding him of your return date and confirming any accommodations you need.

No drama - email trail of information - everyone knows where they stand.

Why would anyone want emotional and medical support from an employer? That seems very intrusive to me. And why would a manager even be in a position to offer emotional support? That seems to put both in a potentially difficult position under certain circumstances, and also I think could easily begin to burn out managers.

I also think it opens the door to this thinking that somehow we "belong" to our employers and it is ok for them to send us on seminars about ideological positions or reeducation stuff that is nothing to do with work.

Of course friendships do sometimes happen at work and a manager could be a friend, and we should all acknowledge each others' humanity. But there are a lot of places where it's most appropriate to MYOB.

I'm sorry you have blurred boundary lines - your manager is not the person you should be seeking support from for your personal life/body.

This thread is so confusing.

period chat should be normalised but I don’t want to talk to him about my periods

Manager refused to discuss sickness because it’s period related but I didn’t want to discuss anything related to my period

I just wanted him to asked if I needed anything but HR sorted out my sickness and I connected them for an extra 2 weeks and sorted anything I needed anyway.

Getting emotionally invested in your team to the point you discuss any and all intimate details is not a good idea. Letting your team use you as an emotional outlet as and when they feel like it, works when everyone is ok and has high emotional intelligence. If you get an emotional vampire type it’s terrible for the manager and the rest of the team.

Managers who believe you have to have lots of emotional discussions and get overly involved in employees well being often make the situation worse. Because they aren’t equipped to be that person for a whole team of people.

You clearly don’t like him. So why would you want him getting into the detail about what was going on with you.

In my opinion that’s just part and parcel of being a manager. Clearly I’m the outlier though.
It isn't part and parcel of being a manager though. Being professionally friendly and encouraging people to offload their personal and health problems onto you are not the same thing.

In fact creating a situation where people feel that all 4 of those are appropriate for the workplace is not the role of a manager and it could easily negatively affect the team because it creates a situation where unfair expectations are put on others.

Eg. One manager choosing to play therapist leads to other people with professional boundaries being judged for maintaining boundaries. It causes tensions in the team.

Eg. The expectation that people ask and share personal information can lead to emotional dumping on colleagues.

Eg. The manager who is dumped on and offloaded onto starts to places a greater burden on team members because they feel they ought to be doing more for the oversharer. This now means they're expecting other people to take on additional workload, whereas if they'd had appropriate boundaries and signposted to occupational health if required then things could be properly organised.

Eg. Because of poor boundaries, the manager is worried about seeming unsympathetic or being accused of discrimination or facing a complaint so she's now catering around offloading colleague, meaning others are picking up the slack.

In my experience a lot of damage can be done by managers who have poor boundaries.

Maybe he just doesnt give a shit why you are off. You have a certificate, thats all he needs.

I am female and not a fan of direct reports telling me about their periods. Tmi.

Im female and would have the same response. I dont need to know your medical issues. I would only expect to have an intervention from HR if it affected your work

4 weeks off? sever endometriosis here ad well as adenomyosis. 10 laparoscopies and treatment for rhe adenomysis. only ever been off work for a week.
work have been fine. most managers had didn't know (mostly males) didn't know what was out for. concerned yes but for me all I wanted was them to ensure work was done and wanst coming back to a pile of crap. most grief I got actually was from female cover who didn't do a tap when was off. current manager knows a little bit and that's only because I am let work from home more than the requirement as he knows it helps deal with my pain

Good for you? I was off for 6 weeks as I had huge endometrioma on both ovaries and they actually couldn’t clear all the endo because it was going onto my lungs.

sorry to hear. hopefully that's it. concentrate on getting better now and getting on with work and everything instead of worrying about manager. book a holiday as a treat

How do you know he's squeamish about periods of you weren't talking about your period?

I have Endo as well. I think a lot of people still don't even know what endometriosis is. He might have never heard of it as just couldn't be bothered.

He probably doesn't even know what endometriosis is!

I mean I assume he googled it when I emailed him?

Maybe it is in my head but he is happy to engage in lad chat including colleagues sex lifes in the office though, that’s not too personal for him 🤷🏻‍♀️

If the sex chat bothers you, report it.

but how does that mean he needs to ask about your personal health issues?

and why would you assume he googled your condition? You said you weee going to be off. He doesn’t need to know the details of it.

You’ve clearly got an axe to grind with this guy.

Given the voting (even though you knew you were correct apparently) it seems likely that it is in your head...

I am just off the phone from a very long chat with a female partner who agreed he hadn’t been great with me so I’ll change manager ☺️

You’ve clearly got an axe to grind with this guy.

It's certainly starting to seem that way. Cynically it sounds like she's looking for ways to get moved team/not have to work with him.

If there's actual examples of him being unprofessional then it should have been reported at the time to the relevant person. It surprises me that there's no mention about speaking to HR about his language about mental health (eg "whack job" for talking about schizophrenia) but when it comes to him having appropriate professional boundaries regarding someone's medical leave he's apparently totally unreasonable.

Then again none of us are in OP's workplace. Maybe there's a lot of managers who blur boundaries and the overall culture is one where people overshare, which has it's own challenges (like for example having one colleague who thinks it's a manager's job to be a dumping ground for health woes, and another colleague who thinks sex chat at work is acceptable).

What's that got to do with your AIBU?

(good news for him though!)

You'll change manager?