HR departments see employees as the enemy

[Donke]

I have worked in several public sector orgs (NHS, civil service etc) and their ability to stonewall and gaslight is unbelievable. Why are they so convinced that they can do no wrong and that employees are stupid/dishonest/incompetent?

I am currently fighting with HR over my T&Cs, which should follow a locally agreed protocol. They are refusing to accept that it exists or that they have the skills to use it which makes no sense because every other trust in the region uses it. They will not open their minds to an outside pov. I have had similar before where they insisted on refusing to pay me sick pay. Why??

An HR Assistant and an HR student.

HR are not all the same. You've had bad experiences, that sucks, but I don't go around slagging off all teachers because I met one who was a dickhead 🙄

I belive its "a", because the H is pronounced.

I would say that they're not even all the same within one department.

Not if you’re using standard English. Aitch is a vowel sound so needs an “an”.

And HR are paid to make managing people as streamlined, efficient and effective for the organisation as a whole. What in my original post makes you think that I don’t think it is my job to manage people? I am fully aware and happy to hire, fire, performance manage, train and develop, support and ensure my people are paid fairly. All I am asking is that HR make that process as streamlined, efficient and effective as possible so I am not spending my whole time doing HR admin when should be managing my people and delivering results for the organisation and its customers. The more time I have to spend following up on shitty half arsed self service guidance on pay reviews the less time I have to use the skills that I was hired for to make money for the company and support my team.

Interesting looks like either is correct when it comes to H where it's pronounced https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/is-it-a-or-an

Thank goodness I said "I believe" rather than stating it as fact!

Good organisations realise that people are their greatest asset and that looking after them, developing their skills and treating them fairly is the key to a positive and successful culture. I think a few posters here are shooting the messenger by attacking HR. HR on its own cannot change a toxic organisation that doesn't respect people. They can and will attempt to buffer and influence but if there is a cruel CEO and exec team they are limited in the good they can do. Employees need to do some due diligence before accepting a job and find out what an organisation is really like.

My experience of HR has generally been poor, working for both a large FTSE 100 company and a university. They often seem to need basic employment law spelled out to them and only back down once unions get involved. I wouldn't say it attracts stupid people, but it certainly attracts a specific type of person. Obviously, not all, but many of them are arrogant and seem incapable of apologising or admitting that they are wrong. Interestingly, in both organisations, despite redundancies HR's ranks seemed to swell.

I think it's your organisation you need to be looking at here rather than placing the blame with HR.

My organisation is largely a self service model for the more admin based or process driven tasks that fall under the HR umbrella.

This is because the organisation can't/won't pay for enough HR resource for the team to be able to support managers with everything in the way that they'd like.

The limited resource we do have is used mostly to support managers with the higher level things to prevent claims being made against the organisation.

Managers don't like it, we don't like it, but there simply aren't enough hours in the day or staff in the HR team to do it all.

But oh look, that's HR's fault rather than the SLT's.

NHS HR really does seem to attract the lowest of the low. They don’t seem to be able to get even the basics right. I would love to know what their entry requirements are.

I’m not denying what you are saying…what is annoying however is the entirely dismissive way we are treated by HR…when we dare raise any challenges around poor HR processes the response it…”oh you expect us to do all your work for you….management are lazy….we are not here to spoon feed you” etc and completely denial that the systems they are responsible for are poor. “It’s not our fault it’s yours” is the default response. There is no willingness to engage…to admit the processes they own are poor and ineffective and hugely inefficient and cause management a massive overhead and stress. It’s a really defensive gaslighty culture that I have seen in multiple HR functions over the years (financial services, large corporations). That’s why HR has such a bad reputation. If they acknowledged their own processes were poor, it would feel more as though we were all in it together however the defensiveness and desire to point the finger at the business is what makes people dislike HR.

If only you could be a fly on the wall. I'm fully aware some of our processes are awful and don't actually help managers in the ways they need.

Unfortunately protests from the HR team fall on deaf ears and if we want to keep our jobs we have to follow the party line of self service being the business model for XYZ task.

I'd love to be able to admit to managers that things don't work and I don't like it either but I'm simply not allowed.

I'm sure there are plenty of bad HR professionals out there, just as with any profession, but I'm also sure that many are as tied down by poor policies and processes as the managers are.

The clue is in the title really, isn't it? They're not there to deal with employees as people. They're there to manage business resources, which happen to take the form of humans....

I completely believe you. 100%. And I also have complete sympathy for your position. But can’t you see how your stance of denying there is a problem and pushing back blame on the business to deflect is entirely what causes people to believe that HR are hopeless, out to get them etc? And shouldn’t any good HR leader worth their salt make these “known but hidden” issues visible to the Board? You are facilitating the shitty culture that is coming down from the executive and fear of not being able to speak up is hardly setting the tone for the rest of the organisation. Your HR director is failing you the HR team, failing the business and failing the shareholders/owners meanwhile facilitating a poor culture.
it’s not an easy job I admit…but that’s why HR leadership needs to be strong…the easy option is to keep ticking along like nothing is wrong. If your HR director/ executive isnt willing to stand up, I really despair 😞

I don't disagree with you. You're preaching to the choir.

My director wouldn't know who I was if I walked up and punched him in the face so I've got no idea what he's doing and have zero influence over the culture of the organisation.

I'm just the messenger who gets it from all sides and am apparently in the most hated profession on the planet 🤷🏼‍♀️

CleanQueen123 · Yesterday 20:19

I highly doubt I'll be believed but I couldn't disagree with this view any more strongly if I tried. It's certainly not how I feel about employees in my organisation.

If I'm frank, generally the problem is line managers, not employees. If line managers took appropriate and timely action to address issues or had robust conversations then my advice wouldn't be needed a lot of the time.

And yet, when it goes wrong HR are expected to wave a magic wand to fix it or are blamed for the problem having occurred in the first place.

I completely agree with this. An awful lot of the problems that come to us could have been avoided if the manager had dealt with the issue at the time. I have a manager who has been literally sitting on a case for a full year. Paid a lot more than me! I've literally written the damn thing for them but the last bit is function-specific and the manager has to do it. I've chased them over the months, largely being ignored, had meetings with them (when they finally do acknowledge my messages), still nada. And the unfortunate employee will be blaming HR!

The organisation I work for is pretty toxic all round. HR has very senior managers who don't so much as have a degree, nor are they professionally qualified. Promoted way beyond their level of competence. Policies and processes that are just not fit for purpose. I say it all the time. We just have to work within the parameters we have.

Personally my integrity is very important to me. I have been accused by a more senior manager of "being too friendly" with managers. I just laugh and carry on. I value my good working relationships and I go above and beyond to help them, and they acknowledge that all the time. I've had employees tell me how much I made them feel at ease in stressful meetings.

Even the team members whom I don't have a lot of professional respect for, I can attest that they do their very best for employees and managers, to the extent of their ability.

Sorry - you're incorrect. It's 'an', because it's followed by a letter which is pronounced with a lead silent consonant, when said as 'HR'.
If you are saying 'Human Resources' in full, it's 'a;'.
Think about saying it in your head, and what sounds correct to you.

(Yours, a linguistics PhD.)

A sounds perfectly correct to me 😬

Had a look online at jobs and looks like I'm not the only heathen who thinks "a HR" sounds correct. Even a university is advertising for "a HR Advisor", aswell as UK government. The CIPD themselves also refer to "A HR Manager"

Guess it's one of those things that will sound right if you pronounce the H so it fits with the "a"

Megifer · Today 15:32

HollaHolla · Today 15:14

Sorry - you're incorrect. It's 'an', because it's followed by a letter which is pronounced with a lead silent consonant, when said as 'HR'.
If you are saying 'Human Resources' in full, it's 'a;'.
Think about saying it in your head, and what sounds correct to you.

(Yours, a linguistics PhD.) Edited
Show quote history
A sounds perfectly correct to me 😬

Had a look online at jobs and looks like I'm not the only heathen who thinks "a HR" sounds correct. Even a university is advertising for "a HR Advisor", aswell as UK government. The CIPD themselves also refer to "A HR Manager"

Guess it's one of those things that will sound right if you pronounce the H so it fits with the "a"

I guess it depends on how you pronounce 'h', ie "an HR manager" if you pronounce it 'aitch and "a HR manager" is you say 'haitch'?

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.

"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.

Well it's a spectacularly rude and ignorant generalisation. I have a primary degree from a Russell Group plus a Masters with Distinction, so I hardly fit your narrow view.

Millie890 · Today 19:06

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.
"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

Yeah totes hilaire... you sound intelligent...

"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!