HR departments see employees as the enemy

[Donke]

I have worked in several public sector orgs (NHS, civil service etc) and their ability to stonewall and gaslight is unbelievable. Why are they so convinced that they can do no wrong and that employees are stupid/dishonest/incompetent?

I am currently fighting with HR over my T&Cs, which should follow a locally agreed protocol. They are refusing to accept that it exists or that they have the skills to use it which makes no sense because every other trust in the region uses it. They will not open their minds to an outside pov. I have had similar before where they insisted on refusing to pay me sick pay. Why??

I’m sure you’re an absolute joy to work with.

I've had no complaints, not even from HR. Which is what we are supposed to be discussing.

Having read more of this post, I can see why businesses need HR. I did found dealing with employees difficult when I had my business, some felt we owed them the world, some knew how far to push and stopped just short, thought they knew how to do everything better etc and that management were in lala land and had no clue how it really was.
I was guilty of this myself before I ran my own business and became an employer and good god my eyes were open as an employer, i then saw the otherside and got it, thank god for the HR company we hired.
Now after 12yrs of running a business I returned to being employed, i will never slate HR like I used to and I'm now pleased I don't have to deal with that side of things anymore it was soul destroying at times, energy zapping.

My point is, it works both ways. Employees can have issues with the company they work with and find it infuriating. Employers find themselves in the same boat with employees. Until you've work on both sides, you can not sustain an argument based on having only experienced one side of it. Employee/employer are two very contrasting ways of working and I'm just grateful I have now experienced both and can see the fuller picture in my current employment.

Sorry can not sustain that should read!

What we’ve been discussing is how many posters on this thread have extrapolated from their personal and localised issues with HR to determining that the whole profession is somehow flawed. I don’t know the details of your particular issue, you have my sympathy if you were badly served, but take it up with those directly concerned and don’t try to paint us all with the same brush.

It's not one issue. That was one particular experience but believe it or not, I am smart enough to recognise a one-off when it isn't in line with the norm of the wider picture. I'm bitter and twisted, not incapable of pattern recognition. I didn't start my working life disliking HR.

Perhaps you didn't realise it, but an industry based on being corporate, protecting the business as a priority, knowing too much about employees, having knowledge of firings and so on before the staff themselves do, and all under the guise of putting employees' interests first, is really, really difficult to warm to. It's probably necessary from a business perspective (although I've worked in places that functioned fine without it) but it's too much to expect it to be universally adored.

I thought some earlier posts about exactly why HR are so often so crap and disliked were pretty interesting. Definitely more interesting than why I am a terrible human for not trusting or liking HR as an institution very much.

And I would sincerely like to know what's up with the paperwork. I know I'm not imagining that one.

I found HR to be the most useless section in the workplace, and certainly they were never of any help to employees, quite the reverse.

What do they do all day apart from self created nonsensical navel gazing, and petty sabotage to the real work if an organisation?

They won't suffer in your battle only you will!

That might be your experience but it’s not one I recognise - for example, I have never, and I know no one in my networks who has, claimed to be “putting the employees’ interests first “. What would that even mean in practice?
Still waiting to hear what you do.

You'll be waiting forever. It's none of your business and you have no right to the information. Hmm, this is familiar.

Hilarious. Happy to dole it out but not prepared to take some back. I’ll leave you to your preferred state of bitter twistedness and thank my lucky stars that during my career I was fortunate enough not to have to work with too many of your ilk.

A thread was started about HR. I shared my thoughts. You and a few others chose to engage with the thread and chose to reveal that you are in HR. That does not create an obligation on anyone else to share the same information because you demanded it of them. Can't think where you learned otherwise...

Although if I did tell you, I know exactly what you'd say and you know what, you'd be right. But I still love it. Shrug.

HR are employed by and paid for by companies to protect the companies interests.

If companies thought they could get away with it they would get rid of HR and so the company would make more profit and the directors get bigger bonuses.

There aren't many free lunches in the corporate world these days.

It's a mistake to believe HR are always going to be a friend and they should be regarded with some level of suspicion by any sensible employee. That doesn't mean that I think they should always be regarded as the enemy. IME sometimes the interests of an individual employee and the company are aligned. And sometimes they aren't.

Shrug right back. Here’s a bit of Frank Turner, always cheers me up

"H*R are employed by and paid for by companies to protect the companies interests"
*
Erm, like everyone else in the business.

Thank God, you definitely need to lift your mood right now. Wouldn't have thought HR training videos would do it, but if it works for you, go for it.

Yup. Had a recent terrible experience with HR. I had 12 years excellent service with one organisation (three merit awards/two additional promotions/always exceeding expectation in annual reviews), but got a new manager. He fucked something up, and decided I would take the blame for it, as I was off sick, after a surgery.
HR backed him to the hilt. Right up until the moment I could provide evidence to support my counter-claim. I ended up having to lodge a grievance about aforementioned shit manager, and they protected him every step of the way. No support for me; that came from my Union.
I would never trust HR again, from my experience.

Oh, and I had no support from them, when we sadly had to ill-health retire one of my team, who was terminally ill. He wanted to retire, and time was of the essence - they dragged their heels every step of the way.

I realise this is my experience of one organisation's terrible HR, but the culture was dreadful in this place.

Qualifications are only a small part of intelligence, maybe she means they lack common sense, compassion or a sense of fairness. Rather than just looking down on people because you’ve got all the qualifications so therefore must know better than everyone else. When you visit HR it feels a bit like visiting the head teachers office as a child, they talk down to you and think they know better about your lived experience. It’s just not on really.

If someone says you’re not bright when you have a series of hard-earned qualifications then you’re perfectly entitled to question that. No reasonable definition of “brightness” is compassion or a sense of fairness, they’re separate things (and good in their own right). Why do you think anyone, myself included, is looking down on people simply by pointing out that we are properly qualified to do our jobs.

Shivermetimbers0112 · Today 11:23

TotalAbsenceOfImperialRaiment · Today 11:14

Those who can, do; those who can't, work in HR.
Total absence of any brain cells

You do realise, that when you point the finger at someone, there are 4 fingers pointing right back at you?

How rude, arrogant, ignorant and ridiculous is to tar an entire section of a workplace the way people like you just have!! You clearly don't understand the function of HR or the complex nature of a lot of the work.

You are also too blinkered (being kind there!) to understand that, in protecting the organisation, HR also protect staff, ensuring that managers apply policies consistently and fairly, thus keeping the employer out of tribunals?

Yes, there's some really shit HR practitioners out there. I work with plenty of them, so I should know. I've also worked for some out-there batshit crazy HR managers. It's not fair to diss an entire profession because you had a bad experience. I'm sure HR managers would have plenty to say about your functional work area too if you divulged what it is!

So many crap managers out there in every function that we're stuck with advising them, digging them out of holes of their own failure to properly manage, and fixing their messes!

I have to say that I don’t think all HR are stupid or bad, but I do think they see employees as a problem. They don’t respect us. I think this is why when challenged they treat us with contempt. There is no chink in their culture that allows them to consider that occasionally we could be right and they could be wrong.

All of this. I have some background in HR, though I completely accept there are some poor practitioners (as there are in every profession) and that many have had bad experiences at work (as I have had too), the hostility towards HR on this thread is a sight to behold.

A lot of it stems from misunderstandings about what the role of HR actually is and what it isn't. Yes of course they are there to support the employer - same as any other employee - although most HR professionals I have known spend a lot of time and effort advocating for employees. If you want to have someone advocate just for you, then you need to join a union.

In the end, the HR department is only as good as the culture of the organisation they work for. I have worked for some bad employers in the past who treat their employees badly; I don't work for them any more as it is soul destroying. And toxic workplaces are the most inclined to hide behind HR.

'Those who can, do; those who can't, work in HR'.

A phrase most often used in connection with teaching; surprise surprise another female dominated profession. I completely agree with those posters who have pointed out that the lack of respect for the profession on here has sexist overtones, which is very sad to see. In other (male dominated) professions, nobody would dream of denigrating an entire profession and all the people who work in it. Some HR practitioners are actually referred to as 'fluffy women' by one poster on here! Heaven forfend that anyone on here be accused of sexism though.

This is what I'm just getting my head round to be honest. It's been a learning curve.

Same here. I have frequently offered advice to people on this site, a bit odd given that I see employees as the enemy and always side with employers against them. Due to the hostility evident on here I might also be tempted to 'flounce' (another sexist term btw).

I highly doubt I'll be believed but I couldn't disagree with this view any more strongly if I tried. It's certainly not how I feel about employees in my organisation.

If I'm frank, generally the problem is line managers, not employees. If line managers took appropriate and timely action to address issues or had robust conversations then my advice wouldn't be needed a lot of the time.

And yet, when it goes wrong HR are expected to wave a magic wand to fix it or are blamed for the problem having occurred in the first place.