HR departments see employees as the enemy

[Donke]

I have worked in several public sector orgs (NHS, civil service etc) and their ability to stonewall and gaslight is unbelievable. Why are they so convinced that they can do no wrong and that employees are stupid/dishonest/incompetent?

I am currently fighting with HR over my T&Cs, which should follow a locally agreed protocol. They are refusing to accept that it exists or that they have the skills to use it which makes no sense because every other trust in the region uses it. They will not open their minds to an outside pov. I have had similar before where they insisted on refusing to pay me sick pay. Why??

Same here, HR forcing us managers to prop up really poorly performing employees. It seems close to impossible to actually dismiss anyone or even get as far as disciplinary action.

Having worked for 44 years I’ve seen all sorts and have never come across any HR dept or Manager that has EVER had the best interests of the employee at heart. They are basically at the beck and call of the company owners or CEO etc.

This is why every working person in this country should be in a Trade Union.

At best the HR people I know (at my current job) are friendly and listen, at worst they have no power at all to make any HR decisions. They are also prone to gossip, the biggest single thing that removes any trust that any of us have in them. God knows what they do all day, a team of 5 for a company with 125 employees.

It’s actually simple if you do it properly. There are processes and evidence needed and in my experience anges do not keep records of conversations and poor performance therefore making it a huge risk for an employment tribunal. Do it properly and fairly and you can dismiss within a reasonable timeframe

There are some really good HR people out there and some who are less good.

I have had to point out the law on reasonable adjustments to a few.

(No, you can't discipline me for being ill in hospital).

Thanks - not inexperienced at making these records, following policy and keeping thorough notes. However we've recently had new HR staff who seem terrified of the employees as a collective, so as a result the tail has begun to wag the dog. It's quite demoralising for the staff as well as us.

Surely you can't generalise in this way? I had amazing support from HR was I was made ill with stress at work. I appreciate that they were probably primarily concerned that the University needed to avoid breaking the law, but the person I dealt with was extremely kind to me.

“HR are there for the interests of the employer.”
Every thread re HR we see this hackneyed bullshit. Every employee is there in the interests of the employer, otherwise no one would have a job.

Like many functions within organisations, there is good HR and there is bad HR. But ultimately, HR IS about doing what is best for the overall business. It might well be that in a company that cares less about employee happiness and more about revenues, getting rid of a bullying and incompetent manager is less of a priority than allowing that bullying and incompetent manager to continue to achieve good financial results.

I have a number of friends in very senior HR roles, and in my professional life I've had to deal with HR people fairly often. And what I find from the good ones is that they a) are attracted to companies that genuinely want a good approach to their employees and b) they have the ability and interest in doing the negotiating, consulting, strategising that will ensure that the business is functioning well without negatively impacting the people.

I have one global client with a known issue with HR in London. And it all comes down to the local senior leadership team who are complete wankers. As a result, HR is universally hated. Their last few head of HRs in London have left after no more than 2 years and I hear via the grapevine that it's almost impossible for them to hire now because they've got such a bad reputation.

With my current HR, what they’re doing is not illegal, it’s just bad practice and likely to mean we struggle to recruit. But they’re like a brick wall. I have had trouble before but always been strongly supported by my union so I don’t think it’s me :)

“I have had trouble before but always been strongly supported by my union “
Unions, in my experience, very rarely refuse to support a member. I dismissed a member of staff once for sexually abusing a disabled student. The regional union official phoned me to ask if a “slap on the wrist” could be considered rather than dismissal. He had the equivalent of a two word response. “Four legs good, two legs bad” is never the right approach.

Unions can be very helpful in bridging the gap between HR corporate speak and the employee. I don't mean to badmouth HR really, they work incredibly hard.

I’m think the problem is they are not accountable to anyone, and they don’t seem to be subject to performance reviews

Human Resources are not a friend of the employee. There's a clue in the name.

I mean, this is just not true.

HRD here with a degree, post grad and a masters not bright is a fairly new insult.... I don't see employees as the enemy. I see difficult employees (you sound like you have the makings of one) as a risk to my organisation.

Most of my time is taken up dealing with wellbeing issues- in the last month I've supported 2 different staff through a mental crisis and disciplinary issues normally arising through someone else's stupidity or criminal activity. People see the impact of HR when someone is unhappy and normally their one sided view but never the other side of the story or work we do because we maintain confidentiality.

The only thing I hate about my job is that despite being well qualified and at the top of my game it's acceptable for very junior staff to be rude about me because 'HR innit?'. You wouldn't get away with speaking about the Finance Director in the same way or any other male dominated professional role but that's another issue

My problem with HR is that they seem determined to do everything in their power to absolve themselves of any responsibility for HR matters and then expect line managers to do all the traditional HR activities using a self-service guidance tool that doesn’t work. And when you point out it doesn’t work, they shrug and ask if you have logged it as an issue with the helpdesk which is very well hidden in the depths of the corporate intranet. 9 times out of 10 they 3 weeks to investigate (against their 48 hour SLA) then come back to say they don’t know how to resolve it and can you raise another ticket if you still need an answer….thus ensuring as a line manager I spend most of my working day tied up in HR matters rather than delivery of my actual role. So yeah…I don’t love HR but I have never thought for a second that they are on the side of the worker!

Reading this has depressed the crap out of me.

I’ve been in HR for 20 years, and tried bloody hard to make sure that employees are treated fairly, because that is the right thing to do, and I am actually also a human being with feelings and compassion for others.

But I have clearly been wasting my time as apparently the majority of both the employees and managers think we are all incompetent fuckwits.

Can anyone suggest a new career for me? I had considered teaching, but they seem to get just as much of a slating on here.

Are there any jobs where people are actually liked for what they do?

A good HR leader knows an organisation's most valuable asset is it's people and therefore, mostly, it's in the organisations to advocate for the employee.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast and all that...

Ramphal v Department of Transport

HR was criticised in this case for being too involved because, guess what, when push came to shove in this case the manager said "HR told me to..." rather than taking the responsibility they are paid for. The role of HR should always be advisory.

The thing is, I’m sure HR do perceive me as difficult, but that’s only because I’m challenging their policy. Instead of giving a well-reasoned rebuttal to my challenge, they stonewall me. Honestly if there was some good faith engagement I’d be happy even if ultimately they didn’t come down in my favour

This

Unfortunately for me I had to go through a medical retirement process from a public sector role. The HR people (at all levels) involved in this process were worse than useless, made multiple mistakes but never admitted this, terrible at communication, caused delays and generally so poor that I did ultimately receive a formal apology from my employer for the very poor HR input. It made a stressful situation even worse.

I have worked in public/third sector my whole life and am yet to come across competent, caring, bothered about employees HR people.

What I have consistently come across is a desire to protect 'the business' at all costs. It took me a long time to realise the true purpose of HR. It should be renamed!

Massively agree with this. My very senior boss has had to get involved with my under performing, taking the piss direct report. It has made little difference. HR have been worse than useless and have had the audacity to accuse me of not being professional as it is clear this person needs firing.

But I have kept meticulous records, logs and strict adherence to all policies. When this ends up in a tribunal, which it will, I am not remotely worried about looking 'unprofessional'.

There are some serious misconceptions about HR on this thread. I work in HR and my whole role is about creating opportunities for young people at the start of their career. As part of this, I have standardised hours, increased their salary scale, trained their mentors and developed learning plans for them all. They are well paid, trained and supported.

Long term this does benefit the organisation as we get to fill the skills gaps in our ageing workforce, but it also benefits employees by creating great career opportunities.

There are a wide range of roles in HR and ER (employee relations) is the part of HR that generally deals with discipline, grievance and sickness.

HR covers learning and development, reward, well-being, early careers, recruitment, organisational development and ER.

I would never work in an ER role within HR because you literally spend your time dealing with people who are causing issues - either through capability, conduct or absence. I have worked in the private and public sector and public sector ER is a nightmare. It’s virtually impossible to get rid of the underperforming staff and those that generally take the piss. Staff in the public sector absolutely know this, so push things to the limit. I could write a book on some of the people that should have been sacked a long time ago, but are still in well paid roles and are getting away with doing little work, poor performance, general bad behaviour, bullying, long term sick - but still managing to do their freelance work. The list is endless.

Great example of the difference between private and public sector ER.

Public sector - I was sexually harassed as a young woman during my time with the civil service. Complained to my Manager, who bottled out of dealing with it and passed it over to HR. Investigation and a disciplinary for the harasser. Outcome, he kept his job and they just shifted him to another office.

Private sector - older bloke got reported to a line manager for sexually harassing a younger female apprentice. I took a statement from her and his manager immediately suspended him and sent him home. Full support put in place for the apprentice, leave with full pay and a phased return to work, with a counsellor on hand, if she wanted to talk. Full and immediate investigation. Discipline case and he was sacked there and then. Done and dusted within 10 days.

Anyway, there are some really clueless remarks about HR and a massive lack of understanding about all the different roles.

Those who find themselves on the wrong side of the ER team do so because of their own actions or stupidity.

Absolutely this. Somone once told me this in an early supermarket job and I've always remembered it.

So yanbu.