HR departments see employees as the enemy

[Donke]

I have worked in several public sector orgs (NHS, civil service etc) and their ability to stonewall and gaslight is unbelievable. Why are they so convinced that they can do no wrong and that employees are stupid/dishonest/incompetent?

I am currently fighting with HR over my T&Cs, which should follow a locally agreed protocol. They are refusing to accept that it exists or that they have the skills to use it which makes no sense because every other trust in the region uses it. They will not open their minds to an outside pov. I have had similar before where they insisted on refusing to pay me sick pay. Why??

I'm a trade union official. There are some wonderful HR people and some truly shitty ones. Same as most jobs in that respect.

I guess my experience is the opposite: I might tell HR they’ve made the wrong call in some way (and provide evidence obviously) and they will go to any length to say black is white. Maybe it’s just a function of there being people in all organisations who don’t like to be questioned or who will twist any fact to the narrative they’ve already chosen

How often do you tell Hr they've made the wrong call OP? Most people have very few dealings with HR in their employment aside from onboarding and off boarding. Are you a frequent flyer?

I'm happy to be constructively questioned if it helps the manager to better understand why I've given particular advice.

I'm not interested in twisting any facts. I've got enough on my plate without looking for trouble or creating more work for myself by trying to turn situations into something they're not.

At my partners work (a government agency), HR have done such a good job they have had to bring in an independent HR company to sort out the mess 🙄

I've seen chronic HR in many companies. That's coming from a Finance person with some HR experience.

My last job I was treated badly. My friend who is an Employment lawyer said the HR Director was shocking.

💯 this

they are ok just to set you up on the system and nothing else. They do not know you, do not see you, do not want to acknowledge complaints against managers and do everything possible to protect the most of horrible and abusive managers. Might be so, but I also firmly believe justice exist

I guess the majority of my team should just stop doing anything then?

The benefits manager should stop writing her business cases to improve our family friendly policies, mat pay and private health insurance for all countries.

Talent acquisition should just leave managers to recruit by themselves for hard to find candidates and stop pushing them to be more flexible and consider applicants childcare needs and that not everyone can attend an interview with short notice.

L&D should stop arranging new courses that employees have requested, raise employees’ concerns noted on performance reviews and ensuring that we don’t fall foul of regulators as no one has done mandatory training.

Our HRBPs should just ignore when managers raise concerns and leave them to performance manage people with no understanding of protected characteristics and mitigating factors.

Thats just half the team and I know employees would not be happy if we withdrew a single item on that list and each person I’ve listed so far does a lot more than I’ve mentioned.

Oblomov24 · Today 21:35

I've seen chronic HR in many companies. That's coming from a Finance person with some HR experience.

My last job I was treated badly. My friend who is an Employment lawyer said the HR Director was shocking.

Yes, there are some shit practitioners out there. You could literally say that about any function within an organisation!

Well I wish you were HR in my place then as I have done all of that. I want to deal with the issue, I have put them on a PIP, as soon as issues cropped up I alerted HR (as I was new to managing and wanted to get it right).

In return I have had a stream of excuses as to why we can't do anything. By chance I was with the CEO last week and happened to raise the issues with him, he was so appalled he has set me up to talk with the HR director.

Based on my previous experience I dont hold out much hope, but perhaps with the cheif exec involved they might want to act now...

Without knowing the full story I can't comment on why you might have been advised not to take action.

That being said, HR is an advisory function. Ultimately it's a business decision as to how to proceed, albeit in the knowledge that there are risks involved.

Do yourself a favour and join a Trade Union

I think it's the same as any role - there will be a mix of good, bad and excellent people the exact same as any other position.

Yes, HR exists to protect the company but that doesn't necessarily mean it's anti-employee. Both purposes can co-exist.

Only a couple of times in a 20 year career. But it was badly received both times. I’ve always started out with the naive idea that they would welcome correcting an error.

Not all HR teams are bad. Ours are excellent - but I'm lucky to work for a company that's generally good to work for. It's probably true to say that they're on the side of the company, but that's not the same as being on the side of the employer - we have a strong culture of teamwork, and the SLT recognise that people who are looked after well will generally perform well, and therefore the company will do well and, build a good reputation.

One big thing about our company is that it requires quite a bit of training to get up to speed, so I wonder whether that makes a difference - they don't want to lose someone after they've spent at least 6 months training them up.

Something I think they do well is that they set up clear expectations and goals for everyone, and provide regular feedback, so someone who's regularly not pulling their weight will (after being given a few chances) generally not last very long.

• HR is an overhead and in some sectors (public, I'm looking at you), they therefore invest very little, so the majority of good HR practitioners go where there is a good company culture and investment/support to do the job properly. See also salaries - the best HR people won't work for pennies so if your company doesn't look after your staff in the first place, you can bet they won't be investing in your HR team and you are probably dealing with inexperienced/less experienced HR people who are willing to work for lesser salaries

• Culture is set from the top of the organisation, if HR are leading on shitty decisions/practises it is almost certainly coming from the leadership/exec team - HR don't just all of sudden decide to make redundancies or cut your employee benefits to piss you off because we think it's a laugh. In certain companies HR have no autonomy and are just there to do the bidding of senior leaders - see point above most good practitioners won't work in such environments, however, HR do have to support and get involved with supporting organisations with difficult and complex scenarios, so naturally we aren't always going to be everyones favourite department

• A lot of managers don't actually want to manage/aren't able to manage (many promoted because they are technically good at a job, not because they are good leaders) and will hide behind 'HR made me do it/say it/etc., - 99% of examples on this thread is poor management. HR, especially in the ER world, done properly is advisory - weighing up benefits and risks for both employee and employer and advising on differing outcomes depending on the course of action taken - it's not HR's job to manage or decision-make on behalf of line managers

• Most people don't have any clue what we get up to because a lot of what we do is confidential, and the majority certainly don't understand the full nature of the job. They do however think a quick google or 5 minute look over Acas makes them employment law experts

• Good HR practitioners maintain excellent relationships with Trade Unions - where I have worked in heavily unionised organisations, I have always promoted joining them - good TU reps maintain excellent relationships with HR

• Suggesting that none of us are bright is just rude, the further up the ladder you go, the more HR becomes a very complex (and thankless) role. As others have said, most of us in senior level roles will hold masters level qualifications or similar

• None of the above excuses the fact that there are, of course, bad HR practitioners out there, just like there are in any other job/sector/specialism

As a previous middle and then senior managing lawyer - Ive found staff in HR to be the thickest and most incompetent bunch ever. Wherever do these companies dig these people up from is beyond me.

I sympathise OP

My DM dubs them Human Waste-of-space.

Where I’ve worked, HR have tended mostly to be female. I don’t know what that is.

For those who hold HR in contempt, is this how you address them at work?

I have never worked in the public sector, but in the private sector, HR are the Company Police. They have no loyalty to the employees and should always be regarded with suspicion.

Not to their face.

That’s odd Dense, the lawyers I’ve worked with have been mostly intelligent, competent and helpful - I suppose there had to be one that bucks the trend.

Of course we are there to protect the employees. Just like every other worker is there to further the interest of the employer.

BUT protecting the employer usually means things which benefit the employees like making sure policies and procedures are lawful and are applied fairly and consistently, like training managers to manage well and competently, like attracting and retaining talent by ensuring employee engagement, reward, benefits and CPD are strong, by dealing with issues fairly and consistently, by promoting wellbeing and so on and so on.

like any other profession you get some useless people but the same can be said of any other role. And you generally need a masters to get much past advisor level so I’m not sure where these comments about us not being bright come from.