the petition going round about dads in hospitals

[strawberryswizzler]

just me who is absolutely against this idea? i’ve had 2 c-sections. one emergency, one elective. could barely sit myself up to feed my baby nevermind walk properly etc, i felt so vulnerable. the thought of being in a 4 bed bay separated only by curtains with random men who could be anyone makes me feel ill. anyone else??

When I had my first two it was 16 to a ward babies in a nursery down the corridor. You were taken down to feed them.

Last one there was only one midwife on at night in a smaller ward she took a screaming baby away for a walk to give us a rest.

I didn't miss men at all.

This is a difficult and emotive subject. For those who have had bad experiences, a penis-free environment should be available. Given the current nature of NHS care and resources, having someone with you can be a godsend.
Perhaps two choices of curtain, blue for those who don't mind being interrupted by non-medics (last time in hospital there were volunteers and all sorts of non-medical surveys and requests) and a pink one for those who want their privacy to be respected?
In a four-bay unit, a fellow patient had fluctuating paralysis and the rest of us had to explain what symptoms we had seen - CCTV for each patient would have been very helpful from a medical perspective.

My local hospital allows men to stay overnight (or did a year ago when I had my son). It was awful. I was in a 4 bed bay on a mixed ante-natal/post-natal ward. Was in the night before my son was born so desperately wanted to get some sleep but had one couple just chatting all night with the lights on and a man snoring all night. Then the following night after I’d had my son via c-section the chatty couple had gone but snorer was still there and he and his partner moaned and complained when my son cried during the night (he was the only baby in the bay as the others were still antenatal). I ended up going home the following day even though I was in absolute agony as I didn’t want another night there. I sent my husband home both nights a) so he could get a decent nights sleep, b) because he’s a snorer and I didn’t want him to disturb me or other people c) we already have a older child so he went home to spend some time with him

Why? I had two emergency c sections. I coped on my own both times

My DH was on the post-natal ward for 6 days/5 nights with my first. He was a godsend. He was able to fight for me when I couldn't do it myself.

The second time I had a private room as it wasn't very busy. Much better for everyone.

YABU. I’ve had 3 sections. The second, I had twins during the first lockdown. One in nicu, and one with me. I had to wheel the little cot thing with dd in, along to nicu every 2 hours as soon as my catheter was out. I could hardly move. Pushing the cot, waddling along, opening doors was bloody hard work. And I was alone because lockdown meant DH was the allowed on the PN ward.

But my story was all the more tragic, because dd1 had died really fucking traumatically in the same hospital a year earlier. She had been in the same nicu and being there, along was so triggering that I ended up having a mental breakdown and made the midwives take dd away while I cowered in a corner. I already had ptsd from her death. DH was snuck into the ward and we had a private room. He wasn’t allowed to leave the room for the week I was there in case other mums complained. It saved me, and us as a family.

Youcancallmeirrelevant o
Hahaha!!
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I remember my exH being able to stay overnight at the midwife unit I gave birth in. I thought the same as you.
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Nope. When I needed painkillers in the middle of the night and noone was answering the buzzer, ExH was sleeping blissfully. I had to walk to the nursing station.
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Nurses were inherently lazier more hands off because the "dads were there to help"

So your husband is useless. Some women make a better choice.

My DH was on the post-natal ward for 6 days/5 nights with my first. He was a godsend. He was able to fight for me when I couldn't do it myself. Similar to this, my DH was my advocate when I needed it most.

Shame on those saying dads shouldn't be allowed because some people feel abnormally threatened. Do you really think a man is going to come and sexually assault you while you are in hospital, seriously get a grip - and some therapy! The only thing that would bother me is if it created lots of talking whilst people are trying to rest.

Hmm, I can see both sides. However if I had to pick one, I'd make it mother & baby only.

I mean I literally witnessed attempted sexual assaults on the labour wards, and so have many other women on this thread. Not to mention those of us that have had men ogle them whilst breastfeeding or masturbating in front of them.

It’s one thing if each patient and her baby has their own private room but I’m utterly against this when there’s just a curtain separating each bed. The noise, the lack of space/facilities, the smells… how is any of that beneficial to recovering from childbirth, even a relatively straightforward delivery? Post natal wards are stressful and loud already. I don’t want to listen to someone else’s partner snoring and farting away all night On top of everything else.

Yes, and maybe 50 years ago that would have actually happened. I had my first baby 45 years ago and even then the care you got was very hit and miss - but it was better than it is now.

I am obviously far too old to have any knowledge about present day maternity care, except for what my Grandchildren's Mum's have told me. But unfortunately in the last few years I have been an inpatient twice for severe infections where I needed intravenous antibiotics and painkillers. I am also an almost totally bedridden disabled person.

Your expectations are, I am sure, similar to most users of the NHS inpatient 'services'. I would have had the same expectations as you if I hadn't been a mother staying with my child in a childrens ward 35 odd years ago, a ward volunteer on an elderly persons ward, a nurse myself (in the past), and a daughter of a mother who had various inpatient stays in hospital, before she died aged 88 years old. Unfortunately, with my different experiences over the years, I had some idea what to expect when I was admitted. It was far worse than I had ever experienced when my loved ones were in hospital before - last time about 12 years ago with my DM - or when I was a nurse myself (mainly on male surgical where we were extremely busy, no sitting around a big desk chatting or laughing for us - we were lucky if we got a short meal break!)

There are still some wards - not specifically maternity wards - where nurses will hang around the nurses hub chatting and even laughing quite loudly at night. So I don't think that the number of staff we have is the complete answer to the problem.

HCA's, who have varying labels depending on which trust employs them, do most (and I mean most) of the care for any inpatient being treated in the NHS system. I don't know what qualifications, if any, that they need to be an HCA, but they can start out at the beginning with no qualificarions of any kind, and be let loose on the patients (usually after another more experienced HCA has had the newbie with her for the first 2 or 3 days). They are then expected over time to gain some qualifications while they are working as an HCA, but for most HCA's it would be difficult not to pass those qualifications, if they couldn't pass even those qualifications then they were probably 'let go' before they even reached the first stage. For all hospital staff, other than student and qualified doctors, the HCA's almost certainly work the hardest!

The person coming to help any type of patient, whether it is to wash them, empty a bed pan, or wipe their bottom after they had a poo, could have had their DBS, a couple of days accompanying another HCA, and then be straight onto helping a patient with their most intimate ablutions etc. The patient may be male or female and the HCA could be male or female. The sex of the patient will almost always not be considered when they are allotted a HCA, and as I say, the HCA may have had little to no previous experience of a strangers intimate parts before being employed as a carer whose job it is to take care of all the physical and non medical care of a patient.

So I do agree with you @strawberryswizzler that the staffing is, or should be, the main issue, and just spending money on more staff should be able to overcome at least a lot of the massive problems the NHS has. But there needs to be far more training for people like HCA's, and far more more indepth interviews for any one applying to be one of the different grades of nursing staff. Far too many fully qualified nurses appear to have no natural flair at actually being compassionate, caring, and for having a good work ethic.

If I could have had my partner, who is also my carer, stay with me for 24/7 whilst I was in hospital, then I would not now be so terrified of having to go back to hospital that I am not telling my GP, 111, or even my partner/carer, that I have been getting very similar symptoms to those I was hospitalised for on the two previous occassions.

I apologise to any genuine caring nurses and HCAs reading this, you do seem to be a rarity, but thank you for all that you do do.

OK that is seriously disturbing, but surely that can't be a thing that happens often and don't beds have curtains around them anyway for privacy? Also what are the other dads doing when this is taking place? Why isn't security called? It seems unfair if a few are ruining it for everyone else.

With respect please read the thread and read the first hand experiences of this happening, I wouldn’t even know how to begin to quantify the stats on this. You’d have to do that one yourself, but every woman I know personally and professionally has a story like the above. That enough for me to suggest it happens more often than people are willing to admit. Never known security at any hospital I’ve ever been in, they certainly don’t have that in my trust. If they do they’re hilariously invisible.

Bed opposite me, woman’s husband making persistent comments about not being able to wait until he could shag her again “when do you reckon ?” “Oh can’t wait to do that” as she attempted to breastfeed Etc etc and stupid giggling.
it was fucking annoying. Like watching a live Beavis and butthead show.
I felt sorry for the poor woman having to live with that idiot. His presence served no supportive purpose at all. To anyone

I (American) only recently found out that the UK puts postpartum women in shared wards, and I think it’s appalling. Apologies for “too much information”, but after my first C-section, I spent about twenty minutes trying to have a bowel movement (which I was required to do before they’d discharge me). I can’t imagine doing that in a shared bathroom with random men just outside the door. Not to mention trying to breastfeed for the first time in some of the situations described on this thread.

I couldn’t stand up for about 24 hours after both C-sections, so I needed my husband to help me with our daughters. But I completely understand why some women don’t want men in the wards. The whole system needs a massive change, it sounds like.

Dads help the partners after birth. I would never have been able to look after twins after a Caesarian. I couldn’t sit up on my own with the muscle cut through so I definitely couldn’t have leaned over to get a crying baby. Mums need help, nurses are too busy and why should men go home for a nice sleep whilst you are left on your own.

I was only on a ward with others for one day and night after my first was born and the same after the twins but all the dads were there. Sitting quietly looking after baby. It wasn’t an issue.

The rest of the time ( 4 days in each case ) I was given my own room, probably because I was the only breast feeder ( there’s a remarkably low take up in my area. )and also because I had twins. so I can’t comment on whether their constant presence would have become an issue.

I do recall, after my first, wanting a shower as it had been over 12 hours since I had given birth and I was covered in blood. I recall shuffling along ( post 3rd degree tear) to the room and collapsing still dressed in the shower. It was a dad that heard me and he called the nurses. I know this sort of thing is rare but had he not helped me I could have been there quite a while. There were no bedside alarms or push buttons as the ward, would you believe, had been opened in an emergency due to too many women giving birth and there was no room for them so we had no electricity all night.

I think for mums that have had a difficult pregnancy and don’t have the extra support of another it must be hard to see others getting that support but it also means nurses will have more time for them.

I'm utterly divided. In my middle class head all is good but talking to friends who work on maternity, there are bigger problems - drunk dads, abusive partners, people with restraining orders... Plus I have had 4 births - slight crisis call in the big midwife to sort it out, twin with one surviving baby, foot first turned into C section and one that turned up in 20 minutes. Baby's OK, everyone is welcome to my party.

I had a horrific birth with my first, with a pph, and I could barely move. I went to the postnatal ward in the late evening, and my husband was allowed to stay whilst we got settled and then I was on my own - it was an absolutely awful night, but I still think it’s right that partners couldn’t stay. I eventually needed a blood transfusion the second night, and the midwives did actually take my baby with them to the desk for a few hours to let me rest, which I was so incredibly grateful for.
Second and third births I was on my own for the bulk of labour and almost all of postnatal for various reasons, mostly to do with the fact that my DH was already a dad and was looking after the other kid(s) - with my last, I literally don’t think anyone checked on me the entire time we were there other than the standard baby check, but I was lucky enough to have easier labours those times so I could cope.
I’m horrified by some of the revelations on this thread, and even though it would have been helpful with my first child, I do not think men should be allowed to stay without there being separate wards and facilities to accommodate them.

We didn’t have shared bathrooms in the sense of a run of them. They were rooms enclosed with toilets and showers. You wouldn’t hear anything. I can’t speak for other hospitals but as an architect I design them and I’m not aware of this being the case in ones I’ve seen.

As an aside not long ago women who had miscarriages were also placed on maternity wards with women with new babies! A friend of mine thought she was lucky that she got to stay in a glass box at the end of a maternity ward. She still had to walk past all those celebrating new mums and dads on her way to the loo though. Thankfully that’s not the case now…….not that I know of anyway.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/17/more-than-6000-sex-attacks-in-hospitals-in-the-last-three-years-says-new-report-18623649/

But you’ve got people outside the bathroom waiting for you to be done so they can get in, right? I’d have a very difficult time with that.

That’s so horrible about the women who’d had miscarriages.

Truly shocking.
Never experienced this myself and never heard of anything like it tbh but clearly if it’s a thing hospitals definitely need to up security.

Why aren’t women using their bedside alarms, we have them in our hospitals. Maybe that’s another upgrade needed.
As an aside
For privacy I just pulled the curtains over. Although The nurses would then pull them back saying how nice it is to talk to each other on a ward and I would ask them to close them again as I was the only one breastfeeding and I wanted privacy. Then the next nurse would joyfully open it again and so it went on. They left me alone eventually.

I never heard of people peeking through curtains though or taking advantage in any way as has been mentioned on other posts
Im aware it happens I’ve just never heard of it on maternity wards
It’s incredibly sad for those here that have gone through that!! I’m just disgusted.

But you might shuffle in and find someone had pissed on the floor or all over the seat, right?
And you'd have to clean it off before you could sit down? And you could end up with some man's pee on your slippers...

This is barbaric.

I had ensuite loo and shower in every hospital where I had my babies in the US. When I had a private room, I had all of that to myself. When I shared a semi private room the only other person using the facilities was the other woman.

No way I think wards should allow dads overnight. If there are separate rooms, then fine.

FWIW I had four c-sections, and while it's usual where I live for all mums to have a private room, so dads can stay, mine only stayed for the first. With the others he had to go home and take care of the older children. As it happens, although he is a good dad, and very much wanted to help with the newborn, he wasn't nearly as helpful as you'd have thought. Lots of things having more "help" is not as great as you'd suppose.

I do think there could be some sort of scheme where the first night, mums could have the dad in a private room, especially for babies born in the night where the mum is still very much recovering. And I also think that where the mum is really incapacitated the father should stay with the baby.

The problem with that is everyone would be arguing that they have some special need or condition that means they are "incapacitated."