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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What does your network think about trans people?

1000 replies

deeter · 16/02/2024 19:33

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 17:33

Also I looked at one of those links and it’s not even a study, it’s an article.

I’m also curious about the position most maintain that they are fine with the existence of trans people, but in the same breath say “it’s all a bit silly”, talk about “blokes in dresses” (such an offensive and derogatory way to talk about trans people - again, I would 100% lose my job if I ever spoke in this way) and are hugely, hugely invested in what kind of health and mental health care trans people receive. The fact that people want to transition seems to be offensive to some of you, and very often the desire to transition is regarded as a mental health problem that ought to be treated.

In my line of work there is ongoing fierce debate about whether ‘gender critical’ staff can be considered safe to work with trans people, with many trans people making a case that professionals who hold such views should not provide mental health care to that group. So it’s quite curious that people here have suggested I’m a danger to children.

lifeturnsonadime · 23/02/2024 17:34

@StolenCookie no disrespect but I want you nowhere near my autistic vulnerable teenager. Your views are harmful and dangerous.

FeliciteFaff · 23/02/2024 17:35

notknowledgeable · 16/02/2024 19:39

really? Did he sleep through the 60s? Did he not meet any of the gender benders in the 80s?

You’re bloody rude

FrippEnos · 23/02/2024 17:39

My impression is the younger generation, as a whole, are much more flexible in their ideas of gender and much more open and accepting of different identities.

My impression is that the younger generation think that gender Ideology is a load of BS.

Those that are more "flexible" are those that go to see people like you and are indoctrinated in to believing the BS. and they are only "flexible" if everybody believes that same way that their gang does, or they turn in to loud mouth bigots that hate debate.

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 17:44

lifeturnsonadime · 23/02/2024 17:34

@StolenCookie no disrespect but I want you nowhere near my autistic vulnerable teenager. Your views are harmful and dangerous.

None taken. It makes no difference to me.

I have however seen trans children cut ties with parents who refuse to accept their gender identity. It’s very sad.

lifeturnsonadime · 23/02/2024 17:45

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 17:44

None taken. It makes no difference to me.

I have however seen trans children cut ties with parents who refuse to accept their gender identity. It’s very sad.

Grooming plays a large part in this. It is very sad. Adults should do better by children. Human's can't change sex. Genderism is based on lies that harm women and children.

TheCadoganArms · 23/02/2024 18:05

In my line of work there is ongoing fierce debate about whether ‘gender critical’ staff can be considered safe to work with trans people, with many trans people making a case that professionals who hold such views should not provide mental health care to that group.

I asked further up thread, but you did not answer, do you believe in gender affirming care? What are your thoughts on the interim Cass report and the fact that many children odten with a raft of complex mental health needs were being diagnosed as 'trans' on the back of a few consultations?

Ramalangadingdong · 23/02/2024 18:12

@StolenCookie yiu haven’t answered my question about why trans women do not campaign for their own spaces. Why do they want to be included in female only spaces. Most women who have lived as women from birth just cannot identify with their experience. I was in a female only space and a trans woman was sharing graphic information about her genital surgery. Sorry, but I don’t wanna know. I just don’t, even while I am happy to use any pronouns they want me to use. And when I am told I am in a women only space I really want it to be truly female inly. I don’t want someone who was born and lived as male in that space there no matter what they call themselves.

I would be willing to campaign for equality for trans women. If you think it is discrimination to not want to in female only spaces then men could argue that they too are being excluded.

Helleofabore · 23/02/2024 18:12

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 17:33

Also I looked at one of those links and it’s not even a study, it’s an article.

I’m also curious about the position most maintain that they are fine with the existence of trans people, but in the same breath say “it’s all a bit silly”, talk about “blokes in dresses” (such an offensive and derogatory way to talk about trans people - again, I would 100% lose my job if I ever spoke in this way) and are hugely, hugely invested in what kind of health and mental health care trans people receive. The fact that people want to transition seems to be offensive to some of you, and very often the desire to transition is regarded as a mental health problem that ought to be treated.

In my line of work there is ongoing fierce debate about whether ‘gender critical’ staff can be considered safe to work with trans people, with many trans people making a case that professionals who hold such views should not provide mental health care to that group. So it’s quite curious that people here have suggested I’m a danger to children.

I never said they were all studies. Please can you show me where I said they were.

It would be significantly hypocritical for you to complain people misrepresent you when you have just done the same.

So, please let me know which link I called a study that caused you to dismiss it. Was it an article that contained links to studies ? Was it a link from a clinician, or an academic or a health agency?

Are you seriously say you clicked on one out of the numerous link and summarily dismissed it without engaging with it at all? Not even to discuss what specifically it got wrong?

GreenAppleCrumble · 23/02/2024 18:24

@StolenCookie

You said this:
”For trans people, and people who accept the validity of their experiences, a female biology is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition of being a woman. Sex and gender are distinct.”

But what you’re failing to understand is that, if trans people want to invent a category to describe their experiences, that’s fine - but they can’t take the term woman. It is already in use. Really important stuff depends on that term being used in accordance with its actual definition.

You can’t just say “oh but we mean something else by it” but then try to access the things that were set up for the actual, original, agreed-upon meaning of the word.

It’s not about us ‘coming from different perspectives’; it’s about you trying to colonise a word that’s already taken.

Helleofabore · 23/02/2024 18:24

In my line of work there is ongoing fierce debate about whether ‘gender critical’ staff can be considered safe to work with trans people, with many trans people making a case that professionals who hold such views should not provide mental health care to that group. So it’s quite curious that people here have suggested I’m a danger to children.

There is a big difference between feminists who are critical of gender and who seek to prioritise sex over gender when sex matter and other people who may believe that sex is immutable. Are you aware of the difference? Or have you melded everyone into the same pot because you disagree with them ?

I have stated that you are a safeguarding risk because you don’t seem to understand safeguarding principles. Not only that, but the very first rule of safeguarding, as far as I have been told, is to let no ideological belief weaken those safeguarding principles. Which is specifically what you have stated that you are doing.

If you actually engaged with the people you have disparaged as transphobic and completely disregarded maybe you would actually start to understand what people believe and don’t believe.

TheKeatingFive · 23/02/2024 18:30

The fact that I can’t, and won’t, define ‘what a woman is’ is not the ‘gotcha’ that you all think it is. The lack of definition doesn’t undo my ideology because my ideology doesn’t depend on quantifying the existence of womanhood.

What you're actually saying here is that ANY man can be a woman if they fancy it. You're opening up women's spaces to any random man who wants access.

Mind blowing really. You're a complete MRA.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 23/02/2024 19:34

In my line of work there is ongoing fierce debate about whether ‘gender critical’ staff can be considered safe to work with trans people, with many trans people making a case that professionals who hold such views should not provide mental health care to that group. So it’s quite curious that people here have suggested I’m a danger to children

And this is the problem. People pushing the idea that people who don't buy into gender ideology are 'unsafe'. Such utter nonsense. These children couldn't possible cope with a different opinion.

Most of the children who claim to have a 'gender identity' do have often multiple co morbid mental health problems.
Added to that the high % that are autistic or same sex attracted.
Childhood trauma or sexual abuse can also cause children to dissociate from their body.
Actively encouraging this is child abuse.
These kids need mental health help and talking therapy, not drugs and surgery.

Also most children also grow out of it.

You said your work is heavily invested in these kids. Interesting choice of words. Pushing gender ideology on vulnerable children makes money.
It's a multi billion a year global gravy train.

Your position certainly doesn't start with any logic at all.

'Woman' isn't a 'gender'. It's just the word for adult human females.
Just like a mare is a female horse or a hen is a female chicken.

If you can't define woman, what exactly are these men transitioning to?

We all know sex and gender are distinct.
You still haven't given a reason why males with a 'woman' gender identity need access to female only spaces.
Because by your gender reasoning, woman is now separate from female and those spaces are only for females and should therefore remain penis free.

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:36

Helleofabore · 23/02/2024 18:12

I never said they were all studies. Please can you show me where I said they were.

It would be significantly hypocritical for you to complain people misrepresent you when you have just done the same.

So, please let me know which link I called a study that caused you to dismiss it. Was it an article that contained links to studies ? Was it a link from a clinician, or an academic or a health agency?

Are you seriously say you clicked on one out of the numerous link and summarily dismissed it without engaging with it at all? Not even to discuss what specifically it got wrong?

I didn't accuse you of saying anything. I'm just pointing it out as it surprised me. I assumed any 'evidence' you were providing was of a high quality.

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:38

Ramalangadingdong · 23/02/2024 18:12

@StolenCookie yiu haven’t answered my question about why trans women do not campaign for their own spaces. Why do they want to be included in female only spaces. Most women who have lived as women from birth just cannot identify with their experience. I was in a female only space and a trans woman was sharing graphic information about her genital surgery. Sorry, but I don’t wanna know. I just don’t, even while I am happy to use any pronouns they want me to use. And when I am told I am in a women only space I really want it to be truly female inly. I don’t want someone who was born and lived as male in that space there no matter what they call themselves.

I would be willing to campaign for equality for trans women. If you think it is discrimination to not want to in female only spaces then men could argue that they too are being excluded.

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces.

I'm sorry that hearing about surgery distressed you so much.

Walk away next time?

pickledandpuzzled · 23/02/2024 19:46

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:38

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces.

I'm sorry that hearing about surgery distressed you so much.

Walk away next time?

Why does what they want have anything to do with it?
Many people want many things. We don’t get them. Truth does not bend to preference.

StarlightLime · 23/02/2024 19:50

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces.
And women want women's spaces to themselves. Why should men's wants take precedence?

Terfosaurus · 23/02/2024 19:52

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:38

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces.

I'm sorry that hearing about surgery distressed you so much.

Walk away next time?

I identify as a billionaire and want to be allowed to own a stately home. Sadly for me the estate agents won't give me the keys.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 23/02/2024 19:52

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces

Tough shit.

Their 'want' should never be placed above actual women and girls need for single sex spaces and sports etc.

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:54

StarlightLime · 23/02/2024 19:50

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces.
And women want women's spaces to themselves. Why should men's wants take precedence?

Some women. Not all.

Trans women are women to me, so men's wants are not relevant to the discussion.

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:55

Whatsnewpussyhat · 23/02/2024 19:52

They identify as women, so want to be allowed access to women's spaces

Tough shit.

Their 'want' should never be placed above actual women and girls need for single sex spaces and sports etc.

Using language like actual women and girls is transphobic.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/02/2024 19:55

Not trans women are male to pretty much everyone else so why do your views take precedent?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/02/2024 19:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pickledandpuzzled · 23/02/2024 19:57

StolenCookie · 23/02/2024 19:55

Using language like actual women and girls is transphobic.

😂😂😂😂😂

Sorry. That should have said
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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