What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

It’s not a clear cut thing. Most people I know though are generally kind and take the view that it’s all good as long as no one is being hurt. Most DGAF about ‘women only’ spaces, as most people I know have not knowingly encountered a transwoman in a changing room etc.

sports are a bit more tricky, dealing with biological difference and the effect that male puberty has on muscle development etc. No one is quite sure how to deal with that.
, to be honest.

to be honest I wouldn’t associate with someone with extreme views. I can’t abide the ‘all trans women should be banned from all
public spaces’ crew (just not practice a way for someone to live their life) and I can’t get along with people who refuse to admit that there are some issues that need careful consideration, such as sports and how transgender teenagers are treated.

Neither I or my friends and family pretend to have all the answers, but generally think people should be treated kindly and with acceptance

I think my circles including work circles are very accepting of trans folks and want to treat them with the same dignity and respect you would treat anyone but also that there are issues with things such as self ID and women’s spaces being exploited.
that being said, there’s so much hatred from many of the GC brigade that they would rather remain silent than be associated with them.

I live in north Scotland and work in construction i.e 99% male. So that’s my circle for the purposes of this thread. They think it’s all bollocks and men who dress as women do it for a sexual thrill. They would say men who want to go in the women’s toilets deserve a kicking. Make of that what you will.

My circle all know that the majority of these men are heterosexual AGP and it's a fetish.

to be honest I wouldn’t associate with someone with extreme views. I can’t abide the ‘all trans women should be banned from all public spaces’ crew

What crew is this? I'm as GC as you come and I've never met anyone, in real life or on here on the FWR board who has ever come out with this.

But not all.

i think that’s important to note.

Many people are not interested in actively doing something, even small, to make a difference. I have come to see some people who declare, it is not an issue, in that light. And that might be unfair of me. But it seems to be that they are in a privileged position of it not yet negatively impacting them, and they don't seem to see it impacting them in the future so why would they move from the comfortable position of deny it is an issue.

Goodness me, I had no idea that people were calling for transwomen to be banned from public spaces.

Surely they have the right to catch a bus to work, be treated considerately at a cafe etc like the rest of us.

no issues find the sm obsession with the issue blown out of proportion

everyone I know apart from one male colleague agrees at times single sex spaces have to be kept to single sex

we are often being reminded to add our pro nouns to signature at work some do some don’t

i was asked do o believe a trans woman is a woman and no I do not they are a trans woman we are not the same biologically or have the same shared experiences he thought this was transphobic but when I asked him if he were dating would he want to have a sexual relationship with a woman who had a penis apparently this was an unfair question

@Outwiththenorm

That is interesting. How can anyone NOT agree with the bit in brown though?

Yep I’ve never heard anyone say this either

I can’t abide the ‘all trans women should be banned from all
public spaces’ crew (just not practice a way for someone to live their life)

Who on earth is saying this???

I have never seen anyone call for that and I’d be interested to see evidence of it

I think it’s not a hard leap to imagine when people refuse to be even mildly respectful to the idea of trans people “bloke in a frock” or “most are men with a sexual fetish” bandied about on here? Let’s not pretend it’s always about protecting women’s spaces because it’s not.

Everyone I know doesn't buy into the fuckwittery that men can become women and it's okay for them to be in women's spaces, sports, rape crisis centres etc.

Except one. She's never had a proper job and been at uni doing course after course since she was 18 with a light bit of travel thrown in. She's the ultimate champagne socialist from an immensely privileged background. She can't debate this issue at all, she just gets all worked up and screams 'well they have to go somewhere' . Ridiculous. You'd have thought all that education would have taught her better debating skills. She is very much an outlier.

I don't think it was okay when Rachel Donegal appropriated blackness and I don't think it's okay when men appropriate womanhood. As a member of the oppressed sex I find it extremely distasteful than a male thinks they can wear stereotypical feminine clothing, wear make, have a bit of surgery and then say they are women.

I find the number of young girls thinking they can be men extremely concerning. I understand the weight of the male gaze and how it can deeply impact young girls. I think an awful lot more work needs to be done on misogyny. Like antisemitism, it is still very acceptable and it should not be.

Oh and my politics are centrist.

Why exactly am I expected to be respectful to men acting out their fantasy of what it is to be a woman?

personally I find a man thinking he has any idea of what it’s really like to be a woman beyond performing stereotypes I disagree with incredibly disrespectful to women

I find the number of young girls thinking they can be men extremely concerning. I understand the weight of the male gaze and how it can deeply impact young girls.

This is the very worst part of it for me. These poor girls, struggling what's happening to their body during puberty, seeing how women are treated by society and wanting desperately to opt out of that. It's a tragedy.

@HRTQueen i was asked do o believe a trans woman is a woman and no I do not they are a trans woman we are not the same biologically or have the same shared experiences he thought this was transphobic but when I asked him if he were dating would he want to have a sexual relationship with a woman who had a penis apparently this was an unfair question

I see. "Unfair" when it actually affects him rather than merely affecting women, whose needs and wishes don't count.

ooohhh oohhh... Can I try to answer that one too?

Some people believe that if they change 'enough' of their body's sex markers to resemble the other sex then they can claim to 'be' the other sex. This means that while you cannot change your chromosomes, you CAN fill your body with artificially produced hormones at the level found in the opposite sex and declare that you are 'hormonally the other sex'. ie. your hormonal sex marker has changed.

You can surgically ( or hormonally in the case of breast tissue) change your physical sex markers. ie. remove breasts, ovaries and womb and surgically attach a surgically constructed body part to resemble a penis or invert a penis into an artificially constructed cavity that a person might call their 'vagina' but is nothing at all like a vagina. But it may be a fuckable orifice like some male people consider a vagina's purpose in life.

You can change your facial structure too. Male people can have bone shaved and cheeks implanted, and face pulled up and even the gap between the nose and lips altered to more closely resemble a female face.

So if you have all these procedures, they believe they have done 'enough' to some how deserve being accepted as being female.

Also, some people believe in post modernist philosophical theories that work along the line that 'if you say you are x, then you are x. Because who is to deny your reality'. So therefore magically saying you are female, makes you a female. Because after all, you should be able to be a female with a penis. Because that is your personal definition and people must accept that.

How did I do?

All my friends and immediate family are supportive of trans people and would roll their eyes at anyone who called a trans woman ‘a man in a dress’. I’m from a working class London background and my parents and grandparents have always been massively relaxed about anyone seen as ‘different’. My grandparents were born in the 1910s and were always completely accepting of gay people and trans people. My grandad had a shoe repair shop in east London from 1949 onwards and used to repair shoes for quite a few trans women; they used to go to him because he was friendly, always called them ‘madam’ instead of ‘sir’ etc.

I can’t abide the ‘all trans women should be banned from all
public spaces’ crew

What crew is that, @FrenchFancie? Where have you seen that? Because I read a lot of GC posts, on here and Twitter/X, and have never seen anyone saying that?

Do you have any evidence that shows that the majority of male people who have declared a trans identity do not have any degree of autogynephilia? Or do you just feel that it is not the case? why? We now have male people with autogynephilia who are stating that they believe that the majority of males who transition do indeed share that paraphilia. Why do you believe that they are incorrect?

‘Package of beliefs’ sounds a bit like persistent marketing calls to me. The small print must be mind-bending. I’d be worried about buyer’s remorse!

(Btw I didn’t mean right wing as a pejorative, more wondering about groups who perceive themselves as ‘rightful custodians’ of this debate).

Totally agree with this and my friends and family largely think the same.

No issue if people are trans, totally up to them.
But transwomen are not women and there are certain situations where biology really matters. Single sex spaces for changing rooms, hospital wards etc and no biological males in women's sports. And vice versa for transmen in men's spaces.

Other than that, crack on.

Lolling at all the PPs who think they are being eminently accepting of trans people, whilst also saying "but obviously they shouldn't be in female spaces or sports". That makes you transphobic! According to the TWAW supporters. It is literal genocide.