What does your network think about trans people?

[deeter]

Immediate family think it's all a bit silly, trans people should be treated well but you cannot change sex. Women's spaces should be protected etc.

But interestingly all of my university friends think trans women are women (did go to a London uni with well to do sorts).

I'm 31 btw.

Sister is radfem and GC, grandmother also doesn't believe in it, my parents are actually both the most liberal about it. I'm very much of the opinion of 'live and let live' but I don't think anyone should be able to access women's spaces just cause.

This is how everyone I know thinks of it too. Personally, I worry too about vulnerable teenagers and we need to ensure that there are appropriate checks in place to safeguard them whilst still allowing people to express themselves as they wish.

I’m also confused by the ‘born in the wrong body’ stuff.

Is it acceptable to even talk about this idea?

If campaigning for the prioritisation of sex to address female’s people needs is ”anti-trans” then logic dictates that those who seek to prioritise male trans people’s needs over female people’s is “misogynist”.

Once you see the polarisation and flip it, it gives a closer indication of the reality.

“Anti-trans” is also a false claim. Because those lazily using it seem to forget that feminists include all female people in their campaigning. All female people which include those female people who reject the language around ‘womanhood’ or ‘girlhood’. Doesn’t mean they are not included or will benefit from the campaigns about improving sex based rights and protections.

But the laziness matches the hyperbole in some posts.

This is great on the surface but fails to acknowledge deeper, dangerous issues (not just related to trans). Girls should be taught that just because someone is 'kind' to them, it doesn't mean everything else can be ignored. That's not a good baseline. How many women have been taken advantage of or much worse because they felt they had to be polite?

Always ask how it is possible.

A male person who identifies as a ‘woman’, identifies ONLY as their perception of a woman and that perception may bear little resemblance of what being a female is or a female’s lived reality. They can only ever be a male person. And vice versa.

When you consider that phrase ‘wrong body’, it is another lazy thought blocking mantra. What other groups in the world are ‘born in the wrong body’? It starts to take on some rather uncomfortable truths about a group who uses such a mantra.

A point I am constantly amazed the TERFs never acknowledge is that trans women are aat as high a risk of cis male violence as cis women.

2-3 women a week a murdered so that’s blatantly not true. These facts are thrown about to force people to comply and make trans people a targeted and more vulnerable group. It’s not true. It’s clearly much much more dangerous to be a woman, and a black teenage boy I imagine.

My experience is a mixed bag. Lots of live and let live and some not and some very pro.
I have a friend whose uncle has crossed dressed for decades, everyone knew, big on the club scene for it, but now has decided he is actually a woman and his behaviour has become quite aggressive and inappropriate. She won’t see him now.

Also I know a couple of people with trans children who are fully on board. One whose son quite clearly hates women and has been miserable and angry the last few years. I have a feeling it won’t end well. They’ve treated their daughter like a golden child her whole life and to me it looks like a reaction to that.

Because people are too afraid to discuss it openly!!!

@MintyCedric
"My closest colleague and I have discussed it briefly in the context of our roles and are both largely of the opinion that each case is individual and individuals need to be treated with kindness and respect."

What if in doing that at the individual level, you create a situation where biological women will end up bring discriminated against? Does 'being kind' to trans people mean meeting all of their demands/ wishes? And what if that impacts negatively on others?

Yeah so this is a good example of being shut down, which makes people scared to discuss as mentioned.

I’ve said something the wrong way, it’s resulted in a sarcastic response.

It takes a certain amount of self confidence not to be shut down. And this is the problem, it’s like walking on eggshells so most people don’t get drawn in.

There was a great piece written by I think Dr Jane Clare Jones ( one of the greatest RadFems and Academics of our time) about how the 'soul' of a person tries to find its way to the right infant, during, before or after childbirth and obviously takes a wrong turn and ends up in the wrong body. Sheesh!

It's satirical obviously, because it's complete tosh.

Overall, nobody cares.

Adult DD is actively supportive of trans people, although one trans friend in school annoyed her, she thinks that was X not all trans people.

Flatmate is gay male & said "That must be so hard" when we were watching First_Date and a participant worked up courage to reveal that they were trans (she formerly he had amazing cheek bones).

Everyone else, including colleagues & social contacts & volunteering contacts & Other adult DC haven't expressed an opinion. I think some of them might stretch to "That's a little weird" about individuals who are more or less obvious .

Exactly! I don’t find men, however they identify, wanting in on women’s single sex spaces kind or respectful to women. The calls for kindness and respect only ever seem to go one way

Everyone wants to be kind and nice, that's totally understandable.

But there are higher virtues to aim for at a societal level. We need to also seek to be just and fair. To everyone.

If we end up with violent men incarcerated with vulnerable women in jail, because that's 'being kind' - something has gone very badly wrong and we need to acknowledge that.

For readers who wonder about all these posters who never hear their family and friends discuss this issue, there might be a reason for that.

Those friends and family may feel that they cannot discuss their true thoughts about this issue. Many don’t feel they can say what they think and will go along with what the group think and say.

This poll is interesting.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/40111-cancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fpolitics%2Farticles-reports%2F2021%2F12%2F22%2Fcancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre

Britons (57%) say they have, at least sometimes, found themselves stopping themselves from expressing their political or social views for fear of judgement or negative responses from others.

Women are also more likely to have held their tongue than men (62% vs 52%).

Indeed it follows on from this Frank Luntz's UK study mid 2021 that found:

-29 per cent have stopped talking to someone over something political they said — while 22 per cent have had someone shun them over their views.
-And some 53 per cent of 18 to 29-year-olds have even cancelled friendships because of pals’ views.

Do people's opinions change if their DC declare themselves to be trans? Are some parents willing to support their DC regardless of the level of craziness the DC displays?

Trans and any sort of identity- cool be your authentic self and I’m happy we’re mainly in a society where people get to be who they want to be. But my only issue is things like pronouns, when they’re being forced on people. Or I’ve seen a video where a transgender woman (male to female) was called ‘sir’ by a waiter as her appearance looked masculine and she kicked off and tried to get the waiter fired. That’s what I don’t agree with, it’s hard to keep up with genders, identities, sexualities and people may say the wrong thing in the confusion of everything - doesn’t mean they should be punished because of this ‘woke’ community.

Yes, that makes sense.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think surgeons have done cross-sex brain transplants yet? Probably pretty risky.

So everyone is stuck with the body they were born with, but they can do the hoovering wearing whatever takes their fancy, defrost the freezer, post a letter etc. I suppose that’s where self-acceptance comes in.

Maybe in your circles but not in mine…

I could be wrong, but I don’t think surgeons have done cross-sex brain transplants yet? Probably pretty risky.

I don't think any kind of brain transplants are possible.

The whole thing is a huge logical fallacy. Your brain is part of your body too. How can that be right - but everything else wrong? What about your heart/lungs/kidneys - are they wrong too? They're never talked about.

Talking about 'wrong bodies' is a quasi religious idea. Basically the same concept as having a soul that lives beyond the body.

Individual trans people met over the years( more common in recent years) depends on the person like everyone . Nice, funny, d*ckhead, friendly, bitchy or quiet - you get the idea - depends on the individual.
However; recent trans people who who "came out" , most I spoke to said pains in the arse and narcs who thought everyone should centre them. (Unscientific Whats app survey) .

The problem isn't with trans-people, the problem is the idiotic worship of gender segregated sport.

How do you know that though?

What would happen if someone within your circle admitted they had a problem with it, what would you do?

Because many people are afraid of being ostracised so will keep their mouths shut.

They’re indifferent about pronouns and the like, but are appalled by doctors making permanent and irreversible changes to a developing child’s body in the name of trans.

Like most people, I reckon.

Do you think all sports should be mixed sex then? Including where physical strength is a big part of it such as boxing.