In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

I can imagine my ILs doing something like this. Exactly why DH and I have nothing to do with them. I guess they don’t like you or don’t trust you.

The true purpose of this 'gift' was to give the parents leverage over the adult children!

She did not say he offered them anything. They simply told the in-laws they were thinking of moving house.

I think I feel like this.

The need to accept that your child is part of DH’s family and not shun them.

If they now want their gift to be repaid + interest then that would be seen as an investment and would attract tax to be paid on their profit.
Given they are quite well off I would assume that 40% (£32,000) at least would be going in taxes.
If you do decide to repay them I would get your solicitor to send them £128,000 and direct the other £32,000 to HMRC on their behalf

Personally I wouldn’t sell the house

If you have £160,000 less than you thought to spend is it worth the expense of moving

They obviously don't see you and DH as being long term, sadly. Even if it's not a future inheritance issue they're thinking of they'll be worried you will buy a new house in both your names then divorce him and take half from him

After 10 years of marriage, 2 children and paying towards the living expenses/mortgage etc that ship has well and truly sailed.

I think the in laws don’t understand the legalities of marriage and divorce in the UK and probably think that their son will get to keep the marital home as it is in his sole name if they divorce.

You need advice from a lawyer who has access to any documents (if any) which were drawn up at the time of the original agreement. Ignore the amateurs advising that your in-laws can ‘jog on’. If there are no papers then the law will try to adjudicate what was envisaged by the parties at the time of the agreement. There are legal implications in giving a deposit for a house and usually an expectation of a proportion of the profits on resale. It is not just about what seems fair.

It was a gift not an investment.
Are they saying that they don’t want your older child benefiting as they are not biologically linked. If so, how absolutely awful. Personally, I’d tell them to do one. Bad for them to ask for a gift back, even worse to want double it from profit on it.

80k is a huge amount, some men are prideful and want to make out they’ve accrued assets without help. Also he possibly didn’t want to reveal the extent of his finances in case that was all she was interested in.

It’s the principle of the thing, they gave the money for him and his future biological family. Not to sponsor an unrelated child. If he didn’t have that expense they wouldn’t need a bigger house and more of the mortgage would be paid off. I’m not condoning what they’ve done - it’s very arse about face and poor form - but I can understand it because anything I give to my DC will have legal protection so that only they and my biological grandchildren benefit. Not interchangeable spouses and unrelated children brought into the fold. You are 100% that they should have had legal protection for the money.

I agree with you that it all doesn’t add up and there is a lot more to the story.

But the siblings of the dh also received the gift of £80000 and aren’t expecting to have to pay that back when they sell their houses

I do believe that it was a gift freely given to all their children but things like marriages with step children just didn’t cross their mind and now are making up the rules around this gift (that they have agreed it was given as a gift) as they go along.

I think the siblings need to be warned that if they do anything that isn’t what their parents want them to do they will have to repay at least £160,000 back to their parents

The original deposit was £80,000, they want £160,000 back to reflect house’s increase in value.
It was a gift given to both siblings as well.
DH offered them 80 but they feel my eldest will benefit at their expense and at the expense of the other grandchildren.

she said this in one of her posts and then said later that she hadn’t asked him why he offered them this?

lots more to this IMO.

What are you basing that on? The OP says the parents have admitted it was a loan, do you know more than they do?

Who TF just rocks up, demanding 160k!?

They're arseholes OP

They wouldn't be getting a penny from me, just a swift "off you fuck"

They need to Google "definition of gift"

First of all, as others have said, once they've gifted something to your husband then it's his to do with as he wishes.

That said, I do have some sympathy for them. When they gave him £80k (presumably a fairly large % of the cost of a semi-detached house 15 years ago!), it would seem they viewed it as not giving him that, but in reality also creating an inheritance for their future grandchildren. Now, he's about to take [what they see as] their future grandchild's inheritance, and put it into a house that will be jointly owned by you, and that someone who isn't their grandchild will inherit an equal share of, so in their view halfing the value of their future grandchild's inheritance from them.

Out of interest, if you have one child with your husband, and one child from a previous marriage, how would you structure things in your wills? e.g. would your older child inherit one half of your half of the house, and the younger child inherit one half of your half, and all of your husband's half? Or would it be a 50/50 split?

If the money was gifted to either or both of you and it was signed for then they re not entitled to any of it back. You should have papework about that gifting, probably with your mortgage

How will you stop their future partner benefitting from your "gift"? If they use it for a house will their partner not be allowed to live in it? If they buy a car will their partner not be allowed to travel in it? If they buy a bar of chocolate with it must they eat every piece themself?

It sounds very controlling.

Sounds as if the ILs are trying to restrict any benefit from their gift going beyond their bloodline. Bit like in pre-nups when one partner is vastly more wealthy than the other. But surely if you give an unconditional gift you cannot expect to request it back let alone with interest! So the son can do whatever he wants with it…..

Yep. I think OP said it was originally just over £300k and is now worth over £600k. PiL clearly think this entitles them to double their money back, but that doesn’t factor in money OP and her DH may have spent on upkeep and improvements, or the fact that they have been paying a mortgage.

There’s something that doesn’t add up here though. Surely if the deposit had been provided as a gift, this would have to have been declared as such to the mortgage lender, as they have to verify the funding source, so there will be documentation to that effect. They’re now effectively saying it was an investment to be repaid with interest, on the sale of the house, which could be viewed as mortgage fraud. Not to mention the tax implications on the profit.

You could buy the new house with percentages of ownership built into the mortgage (forget what this is called…?) and your portion is split 3 ways, his two ways etc in wills. But honestly if you treat the three kids equally in all ways in your relationship then frankly… fuckem!

My parents provided a deposit for me when I bought a place with my son to be ex husband. We wrote an agreement (unwitnessed and not legal) that they could take the relevant percentage of the property if we split up (ie it would be mine not my exes) so if they wanted that I would give it to them, but tbh when we divvy things up I will be back with my begging bowl so what would be the point! ?
do they have so much as a verbal agreement on the point of the expectations? Did they expect him to stay single his whole life?

Just don't give them anything. If they insist on having it, just tell them it was already all put into the new house. They have no legal standing, so it is not like they would be able to sue and get anything. If they keep talking about it, your husband should tell them that he will only pay back the exact amount of the gift if all the siblings have to also pay back all the gifts they have received. And that every time they ask him or you to pay the gift back, he is going to ask the siblings how much they are being asked to pay back.

What spiteful people. Let's be clear on this: it's not just that they don't want to gift your daughter anything... That might be just, juuuust be within the realms of "reasonable", even though it's extremely unkind and ungenerous.

No. They are actually saying they are so adamant that they don't want your daughter to see any benefit whatsoever from their gift, that they would rather see their own son and their blood grandson go without any help from them at all, than see their step-granddaughter receive anything from them at all.

Definitely grounds for cutting them off I'd say. Whether you give them their money back and tell them to shove it, or keep it and tell them to jog on.

It was in one of OP’s update that PIL doesn’t deny that it was given as gift.

What awful people they are. If you’re in a position to give them the original money back do it and then cut them off. They sound really spiteful

What vile selfish people!

OP did in fact update that her DH had offered them £80,000 and that she wasn’t sure why.

the DH has £80k cash at the ready.
interesting