How would you deal with this awful manager?

[Tsc2011]

I have a senior role in a mid- size company and my role is very technical. I’ve been here 5 years and mostly enjoy it (I work from home, good salary and benefits and a lot of flexibility). A few years ago a competitor asked me to interview with them and I went out of curiosity. There I met, we’ll call her ‘Sally’, who I immediately got bad vibes from and I decided the job wasn’t for me.
Cut to two years later and Sally joins our company and is immediately vile. What was a very friendly, supportive team suddenly had this woman who was aggressively competitive and uncomfortable to work with. I find her very competitive with me whilst I mostly try to avoid her. She was also best mates with our manager.
Three months in to her contract, and not even through probation, we get told she’s been promoted to be our line manager (an extra layer of management we’ve not had before).
I’m still not clear what her role as line manager is. She has very little to do with us (which I count as a good thing), and as I work from home I avoid her as much as possible. Her inexperience has shone through many times and we’ve all witnessed how much she likes to be right and agreed with, even when she’s wrong. Some of the interactions I’ve witnessed are just wrong and she’s not well liked.

Now, over the last few months I’ve been working on a very stressful project. I’ve also had loads of extra work piled on me by her whilst others on the team, including her, are doing barely anything. I’ve told her it’s stressful and I’ve asked for an extra pair of hands but none have been forthcoming. We’d warned management that the volume of work and the tight timeframe left us open to errors creeping in but they did nothing. The huge amount of stress and very long hours have led to a slight back injury becoming a lot worse and I ended up in hospital where I’ve been told that the tension has damaged nerves and I may now need an operation- all very stressful and painful.

I came back to work this week and in a call with her I asked how the stressful project was going. She told me that she’d taken it on and in the tens of thousands of calculations I’d done she’d found 4 mistakes (which should have been picked up by another colleague in review), she therefore didn’t trust my work so deleted it all and started again. For context we all review each others work and I always find countless mistakes in hers but she gets very snippy of you point them out. I was shocked. It was around 50 hours of work and 4/10000 is pretty good going in our line of work. She was obviously loving telling me this and said she’d informed her boss as well and had written a list of errors so that we can sit down and go through them. Fine, but then she went on to emphasise how unhappy she was and how much extra work I had caused her.
This was on all in my back to work meeting, where stress had played a big factor in my time off.

I feel really down. I’ve been working so hard with no thanks or appreciation so to pick me up on minor errors and make out they were worse than errors usually found in these projects has been gutting.

How would you deal with her when she wants to discuss this. She really makes my blood boil and I’m worried about how to take this.

This is horrific. 💐 and a hug for you.

And 🍷for your awesome mum

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I think you've done the right thing though in being signed off. You clearly ARE genuinely sick, and at least now you can find some breathing space. I hope you start to feel stronger soon x

This has so many useful points; many that I wish I’d known myself, when I was taken through a similar process to you @Greenergrass40

I was devastated when I had spurious accusations made against me, and was completely blindsided. Unfortunately, my evil boss had it in for me for about 3 years, and he destroyed my self confidence, and mental health.

My Union Rep was my saving grace. He was experienced, and absolutely what I needed. After a lot of difficulty, including grievance, and counter-claims, my employer eventually came to a compromise agreement with me. I knew I couldn’t go back, no matter the outcome, so they agreed to an accurate (excellent) reference, and about 8 months pay, in order not to go to an ET.
Had I been stronger, I would have definitely pursued the ET, but I couldn’t face it…. And they knew it, I think.

You are getting lots of good support here. I am just so sorry to hear you’re going through this. Take care.

@HollaHolla thank you for that. Although awful that you had to go through that it’s reassuring that you got to the other side in one piece.
Did you have an employment gap and how did you explain it?

I spoke to a recruiter today who told me to count myself lucky I had a job because there’s nothing out there right now. For extra measure she told me to make sure I hung on to it. I was on the verge of hyperventilating with panic.

They’ve beaten me down so much that I actually feel ashamed as if I’ve done something wrong.

I went through all the documents for the project I did at the beginning of last year that she accused me of failing on in the meeting. There were around 15 comments in a 250 page document. The majority were regarding what she preferred and 1 related to a technical point where 2 wrong numbers had been used from a list. This involved correcting 4 numbers. In my review document she refers to this as “significant efforts from her had to made to bring the document up to standard” I changed the 4 numbers.

All the other adjustments she made were to style which I had been asked to use.

In the meeting her mate claimed he couldn’t fully remember but assumed that a specific style had been included in the instructions- so I’ve been through the notes and nothing! In bold it says the project is “update of information” and the task was to add new information in to an existing document written by the client.

I just don’t understand why he’s also out to get me.

She’s being a total bitch. This is essentially a witch hunt now - and you need to think about how you want to get out of the other side of it. It isn’t easy.

Re: the employment gap. I took 5 months off in the end. Took me 3-4 months to get my head right again, as I was totally broken down by them. I was fortunate enough to get 3 or 4 interviews, and 2 job offers. Both for fixed term. I took the one with 2 years; the other was a mat leave. Im
fairly senior, and I was willing to go down one grade, but didn’t need to in the end. I just explained the gap as ‘things changed, and I decided that wasn’t a setting I wished to work in any longer.’ I’ve been there 7 months, and no one has asked anything further.

best of luck. It’s an awful situation.

Sorry my last massage should have read her adjustments were for a style I hadn’t been asked to use and was totally unaware of.
I just had a panic remembering the car needs a service and MOT which is more money I have to spend out of my savings.

@HollaHolla I’m glad things worked out positively for you in the end. I’ve resorted to effectively messaging contacts and practically begging for a job, it’s pretty demeaning.

Sorry to read your latest updates and I hope you have some support around you at this time. It is shocking what they have put you through. It looks as if they pushed you to the limit with crises and demands for a large project to be completed at a day's notice.

Are you still working on your grievance script and have you got any further with a solicitor? In case you are, there is information on the ACAS website explaining grievance procedures and principles: it provides a template covering letter (very short), and a link to guidance from Citizens' Advice which is more detailed about what to put in and leave out of your grievance submission. https://www.acas.org.uk/grievance-procedure-step-by-step

@Abitofalark thank you. Currently wide awake whilst my partner sleeps completely freaking out.

There are NO jobs being advertised at the moment and what I do is very specialised.

I’m so scared we’re going to lose the house.

My line manager today cancelled a 1:1 I planned to have with her two days after sick leave- my minds spiralling that they’re planning to sack me on my return.

the solicitor wants either £2700 upfront of 25% of payout plus VAT which is over £17000 on the predicted payout he gave me. I’m so worried about spending any my savings on a solicitor for it all to go wrong and leave us in an even worse state financially. But £17k is huge!

Still awake! Does anyone know of a union that represents you for pre existing issues? I found Unite the workers union but it has mixed reviews.

Sorry, should have read empower the workers union- so tired and stressed!

I sincerely hope and believe you will not be losing your house. You feel panicked at the moment but you will have time to reorient yourself - you have some savings plus you will be able to find a job to pay the bills even if it is temporarily not your usual career job. Together with your partner and your family I am sure you will be able to come up with a plan. There are things you could do: a house is an asset, so there's potential for various solutions that could work for you when needs must. Mortgages can be extended for the time being, lowering the monthly repayment; houses can be rented out; room(s) can be let while staying in the house...
Even if they did sack you, they will offer some sort of severance pay, probably of several months' salary as any HR professional will know the risk of financial penalty if they don't. They probably know you are capable and aware of legal rights and procedures etc and if they sacked you while you have a formal grievance and are off sick, they had better consult a lawyer. As for the lawyer's fees quoted, it's a lot to shell out but if it's for a top specialist who knows how much they can get...but it's for you to decide; it's your money and your assessment of risk and you obviously feel very exposed at the moment. Perhaps the no win no fee, as we mentioned earlier would be open to you. To help with your panicked state and coping with return, speak to your doctor and ask about beta blockers /propranolol or something else they could recommend.

I don't know the answer to that but a search brought up this:

"But WRS provides a unique ‘pay as you need it’ service. Meaning we can arrange union representation for you even if you are not already a union member."

https://www.workplace-representation.co.uk/2021/11/29/representation-work-meetings/

It's not something I've come across or heard of previously; no idea what it is like.

Firstly, check you don't have legal cover already on your home insurance.

To be honest, I'd probably go with the 25% of any award. Perhaps shop around first. But if this firm is good at what they do and has a successful track record, they'll probably get more than you would settle for on your own anyway. When I represented myself I didn't negotiate hard at all and accepted their 2nd offer - if I had to do it all again, I'd definitely get proper legal representation.

As an employment lawyer I would say 25% of compensation is a great offer for funding. Legal expenses insurance doesn’t properly kick in until the point of bringing a claim.

Settling it early has huge benefits. Frankly your lawyer won’t want it to go to an ET as their time spent would be around £15k in fees! So I would take it as a good sign that they think it’ll settle early and you have a good case… and I’d snap their hand off…

@MrsPinkCock

thankyou. Can you advise me- the solicitor said put a grievance in now whereas my family think it’s too soon. I don’t know why I’m being assessed for capability on top of performance, I don’t know what targets they’ll set etc.

my family think I need to go to the PIP meeting to gather more information and if I’m still not happy then raise a grievance.

The job market really is empty at the moment and they think the solicitor is pushing me to enter the grievance because it benefits him financially but that I’ll then be left unemployed and with a weaker case.

Yes, I have had that too. I think it's easier to leave OP. Such a shame for you.

What about the place she has come from? I wonder if they have filled her role there? They might welcome you with open arms?

*Apparently I’m expected to work to a much higher standard than everyone else" yes I've experienced that too. There's no easy solution other than to leave.

They can do but not always. The boss I had about ten years ago who was a nightmare is still there!

But there was another job where, if I'd hung around another six months or so, my boss would have moved on.

"Snide cunt you are, Sally. Please don't hesitate to fuck off."

*may only apply to correctly-ordered universe

I suspect there is enough to raise a grievance at this stage, yes. I have done them on far less and the threat of a PIP is enough when combined with the poor management behaviour and vastly different staff targets. However I would say I can’t advise on strategy at the moment as I haven’t seen any of the evidence you have, so I’d take your lawyers advice.

The question to ask is whether you have a potentially valid CD claim yet or not. If you do, a grievance now could buy you some time before deciding to resign (assuming they don’t find in your favour), but on the flip side if the grievance is dealt with and found in your favour (for example the manager is sacked!) the claim all but goes away as you have nothing else left to resign in response to. A CD claim requires you to resign directly in response to a fundamental breach of contract without delay and here you want to demonstrate a breakdown in trust and confidence. With CD claims it’s really important to take your lawyers advice on timing!

Usually a grievance written by a lawyer is a good way to go as it forms a kind of letter before action. It’s often my preference anyway. Fine to do it on your own too though!

@MrsPinkCock

Thank you. What is CD?

the solicitors actually haven’t asked to see any evidence yet which has made me a bit nervous as to how confident they can be about my claim. I’ve phoned a few and none of them have asked for it.

My family are really urging me to go to the PIP and then decide what to do. A big part of my grievance is that they’ve moved straight to formal stage and they haven’t set me any objectives or checked my work in the interim. My mum was saying that my claim is a bit weak right now because the PIP is to lay out those objectives. Then I can raise a grievance if they’re unattainable or unjustified.

CD = Constructive Dismissal.

I would be very wary of a lawyer who gives solid advice without seeing evidence first though!

I would give general guidance to someone, but I wouldn’t be ADVISING them or offering funding until I’ve reviewed all the basic documents (your contract, staff handbook, email correspondence, proof of targets and anything else relevant to the claim). I’d also meet to get a full understanding of the background and explanation for any of the documents. Only then would I suggest a proposed way forward. That would be done provisionally at the meeting with confirmation of my advice and proposed strategy sent in writing afterwards (with a cost benefit analysis, funding options, and risks set out clearly in writing).

I appreciate it comes at a cost though and quite rightly, many people aren’t willing to do that without having some guarantee they’ll see a benefit at the end of it.

(don’t worry, I’m not touting for business - I no longer work in private practice, I moved in house!)

The company that you got called to interview for - the one that Sally came from, I'd approach them to find out if they are still in the market for whatever your role is.
Then I'd leave the current employer.

I'd also try to head hunt your old team (one by one) if that is something that might be in your remit in your new role.

That's what I would try to do.

@Greenergrass40 surely the bonus is for 2023
or maybe end of Q1 2024. If they put you on a PIP now it’s looking ahead and you won’t qualify this year. Shouldn’t affect the last year? And if you were on a PIP there should have been something formal. What did your Team Lead say in the meeting?