How would you deal with this awful manager?

[Tsc2011]

I have a senior role in a mid- size company and my role is very technical. I’ve been here 5 years and mostly enjoy it (I work from home, good salary and benefits and a lot of flexibility). A few years ago a competitor asked me to interview with them and I went out of curiosity. There I met, we’ll call her ‘Sally’, who I immediately got bad vibes from and I decided the job wasn’t for me.
Cut to two years later and Sally joins our company and is immediately vile. What was a very friendly, supportive team suddenly had this woman who was aggressively competitive and uncomfortable to work with. I find her very competitive with me whilst I mostly try to avoid her. She was also best mates with our manager.
Three months in to her contract, and not even through probation, we get told she’s been promoted to be our line manager (an extra layer of management we’ve not had before).
I’m still not clear what her role as line manager is. She has very little to do with us (which I count as a good thing), and as I work from home I avoid her as much as possible. Her inexperience has shone through many times and we’ve all witnessed how much she likes to be right and agreed with, even when she’s wrong. Some of the interactions I’ve witnessed are just wrong and she’s not well liked.

Now, over the last few months I’ve been working on a very stressful project. I’ve also had loads of extra work piled on me by her whilst others on the team, including her, are doing barely anything. I’ve told her it’s stressful and I’ve asked for an extra pair of hands but none have been forthcoming. We’d warned management that the volume of work and the tight timeframe left us open to errors creeping in but they did nothing. The huge amount of stress and very long hours have led to a slight back injury becoming a lot worse and I ended up in hospital where I’ve been told that the tension has damaged nerves and I may now need an operation- all very stressful and painful.

I came back to work this week and in a call with her I asked how the stressful project was going. She told me that she’d taken it on and in the tens of thousands of calculations I’d done she’d found 4 mistakes (which should have been picked up by another colleague in review), she therefore didn’t trust my work so deleted it all and started again. For context we all review each others work and I always find countless mistakes in hers but she gets very snippy of you point them out. I was shocked. It was around 50 hours of work and 4/10000 is pretty good going in our line of work. She was obviously loving telling me this and said she’d informed her boss as well and had written a list of errors so that we can sit down and go through them. Fine, but then she went on to emphasise how unhappy she was and how much extra work I had caused her.
This was on all in my back to work meeting, where stress had played a big factor in my time off.

I feel really down. I’ve been working so hard with no thanks or appreciation so to pick me up on minor errors and make out they were worse than errors usually found in these projects has been gutting.

How would you deal with her when she wants to discuss this. She really makes my blood boil and I’m worried about how to take this.

Well done OP. Agree with pp who said to get away from her one way or another. Hopefully sideways. I don't understand people like her - it's clearly going to be worse for her to lose a decent member of staff!

I like the idea of email confirmation of the discussion to avoid any differences in recollection but maybe just give it a few hours or a day.

Good luck, sounds like you've gone to battle

I didn’t realise it was just her - there should have been someone else to monitor her and to listen to your response.

I don’t know the best ‘next move’ although I would want someone to know that she has painted 4 errors as ‘had to start again’ and you can see she didn’t. So she has claimed to have done all of it whereas she took an inordinate amount of time to fix your 4 errors. Surely she should be sorting out the peer review because that clearly didn’t happen as it should!

So sorry to read your updates. She's a horrible nasty bitch. I do wonder if she sees you as a threat and only wants to work with people who aren't as experienced as her so she gets to shine by comparison. I did work with someone like this years ago - literally every single one of us left and I can see from their social media posts that staff retention is still a problem.

Really hope your interview tomorrow is successful. Although, it's a shame you have to leave rather than the bully. Is there no chance of you going to the MD? Maybe if you get another job offer you can? As then at least you have a plan b.

You had one job interview and decided you didn't like this woman within a few minutes of meeting her.

You've remembered her and continued to be biased against her once she joined your current workplace.

You claim she doesn't do anything when you have absolutely no idea of her responsibilities and what she actually does do. Especially as you WFH.

You have a history of raising grievances.

Claiming to have done 10,000 calculations is a strange way of saying you've created a spreadsheet with some formulae and dragged this. You shouldn't be penalised for errors like this that weren't caught, but ultimately she's noticed them during her checks (so she IS doing something, despite what you claim) and if she's decided to do it herself then she has every right to do so.

Hi Sally 👋

Also copy in her manager and HR into that audit trail.

You did really well OP - I wonder whether she was expecting you to be so calm and logical? Good luck for the future. 🌹

😂 This is not the great take you think it is.

This. You need to ensure you get your notes shared.
I let HR do notes of a meeting with my awful boss, and I hugely regret it. It took about 9 months (!!!) to agree the record of the meeting.
Well done in defending yourself.
Next you need to plan what you want to do next; think about whether it's an exit strategy.

Is it not?

The OP has stated they didn't follow procedure before they left and keeps harping on about "being stressed", which I don't consider particularly professional.

Not to mention the personal digs at "her mate, the boss".

And she clearly had a tone during the call.

I can completely understand what it's like to work with a Sally. But in those cases you have to be careful to be on top of everything. I don't think the OP has.

Is it not?

No. It's really not.

@HadEnufff you sound quite spiteful. How is being ill not professional?

Agree with@Fallenangelofthenorth she is threatened by you, Ive seen similar situations with new toxic bosses having an agenda against long serving well respected staff members .
You’ve done well standing your ground, not easy and so stressful. But can’t help feel you are up against it if she is mates with the boss.
How the hell did she manage to get promoted so quick, is she shagging him?
I would be planning my exit strategy, life’s too short, who knows, she may eventually be hoisted by her own petard and you could return?

Thanks everyone (apart from the person who could quite possible be Sally!).

I spoke to a colleague today who was working on the same project and she was appalled. Sally had listed dozens of things I’d apparently done wrong which my friend agreed her boss had told me to do, she’d been in the meetings when he’d told me. Meanwhile he sat silently on the email today refusing to correct her.
Her boss had also created a spreadsheet on a similar subject to mine for the same project which was full of mistakes they’ve spent three weeks trying correct- he’s just shrugged and said it’s because it’s so complex.
She also told me that Sally has been messing up, having to recall documents from the client because of her mistakes and misreading data.

Apparently I’m expected to work to a much higher standard than everyone else.

My colleague’s going to raise it on her meeting with her boss because she’s been treated badly on this project as well.

As I’ve said she can be very competitive and something happened recently which might have spurred her on to try to take me down. I also have a better job history and qualifications and I’ve overheard her exaggerating her experience before so it might be jealousy.

If she's sending out shit to client's then hopefully it's only a matter of time before complaints reach the MD. Is no-one reviewing her work before it gets sent out?

@Tsc2011 good luck today. I hope the interview goes well. But - if you get the job - take time and don’t rush to quit the current job. She might decide it’s all too much hassle and leave or you might find a way round this. While you all agree there are some process issues to sort and they affect all of you, there are double standards to address too, around male boss making more mistakes and saying ‘it’s
complex’ and them getting longer to finish the work. Versus her saying your work had to be deleted (when it wasn’t and she didn’t delete it) and when you (not blaming her but stating facts) regularly find more errors when reviewing hers and you ALL have to be able to change from ‘feeling blamed when others find errors’ to a culture of ‘they have my back and I trust them to pick up mistakes - it’s great to have a second set of eyes on this’.

It feels like this might be what has changed with her arrival - she’s trying to make her mark. Perhaps she even feels she doesn’t have enough to do.

Perhaps on Monday you could go and meet with both of them, some senior colleagues and say you’re ready to draw a line under it and move on and want to discuss some
potential ways to avoid a similar situation. This could include:

• discussing ideas for process improvement (particularly around peer review e.g. some sign off where whoever should have done a full review can’t have missed doing so)
• getting agreement that new boss should have waited for your say so that your work was sufficiently complete to be graded
• agreeing standards for when work needs to go back into the review cycle vs ‘can be considered signed off’
• preferred approach for calculations that can be done several ways and whether you should all move to doing things one way
• not colouring headings for client X and maybe a cover ‘sheet’ at front of spreadsheets with that client’s preferences for styling and special customisations and so on so that when someone has to pick up someone else’s work they have a ‘cheat sheet’ to see the important specialities
• once calm, you could have a quiet chat with her (take the higher moral ground here) and say, you appreciate it’s hard to come into a new job and feel you’re contributing but it’s also very hard to come back from being ill especially if in pain and you hope she will consider this if she has to deal with a similar situation. Likewise, you will try to count to 10 and step back from feeling under personal attack when some of her points were valid.

keep us posted!

I think the joy of your job is gone tbh - she is shit and her manager mate is making things far worse. Even if she went you'd always know he wouldn't have your back.

I am very sorry you are going through this Op. You have had (mostly) good advice on here....I think that regardless of what you decide to do you should keep a paper trail with dates, discussion points, email communications and all relevant evidence.

You may later have a case for constructive dismissal as some posters have mentioned, however that can be hard to prove. One option is to raise a formal grievance now, citing bullying and failure to manage work-related stress (I think your employer is really failing in their duty of care towards you here.).

Bear in mind that grievances, in practice, are regarded in many workplaces as a nuclear option, and your position may become untenable afterwards regardless of the outcome. But you may feel that you don't have much to lose?

Have a look at the grievance procedure and see if it says anything about trying to resolve issues informally first. Have you got a Company Values statement - anything there about treating employees with fairness and dignity?

It is really about demonstrating that you have acted in good faith throughout and that you have given your employer opportunities to rectify things. Then, in case you later choose to pursue an unfair/constructive dismissal case, the fact you tried to engage with them can only strengthen your position.

@Tsc2011 I meant to say to complete my last post - if talking to them on Monday doesn’t give you any confidence and you do get an offer from today’s interview then you can calmly take the new one knowing you tried your best to sort things and didn’t accept it as a kneejerk reaction. As others have said - current role might be ‘done’ but don’t make a snap decision while emotions are high/you’re in ‘fright or flight’ mode.

Whatever happens, try and put it all put of your head for at least some of the weekend. I hope your back pain and stuff gets better too, pain doesn’t help with tolerance levels or relaxation either!

Hi All, I named changed because I was concerned they might spot my post and I didn’t want to rock the boat.

A quick update, my doctor wrote the company, as they requested, and stated that poor working conditions and stress can cause my current physical condition.

HR and Sally met (it was visible to me in her calendar before she made it private) the next day and then immediately emailed me to ask me to confirm they had done everything possible to support me. I didn’t.

The next day Sally emailed my annual review across which said I’d worked hard, had great working relationships, had met my targets BUT I had failed on the only two projects she’d reviewed (out of 15). One I’d received minimal feedback on and the “error” was because I hadn’t been made aware of something and it wasn’t in the project notes which she accepted at the time. The next was this project which she slammed, disregarding all the circumstances I’d previously set out to her.

The only objectives we set were to do some training the whole organisation was scheduled to do and read some procedures they hadn’t drafted yet and the whole company would have to do the same.

I was devastated!

She also said she was bringing her mate to the meeting. I responded asking why and if this was just a review which she confirmed it was.

I turned up and got reprimanded for an hour. I did take some control by asking them to explain what support they had offered, pointing out behaviours which had affected me and restating my case. I also confirmed at the start that this was not a PIP or disciplinary meeting. They said I had a record of poor work- I asked which work and they said one project 5 years ago raised a concern- I asked for details and they said it was so long ago they couldn’t remember (I’ve since looked and in my review it said a concern was raised but in the end it was found it was a case of getting used to a peer rewind style of a colleagues and it resolved)

At the end she said she was formally notifying me that HR was putting me on a”Capability procedure”. I asked what that was and she said she didn’t know and it wasn’t her job to tell me. I told them they had failed on their duty of care towards me.

HR then emailed and said it was a PIP but didn’t send me the policy as THEY DON’T HAVE ONE! Their bonus policy does say I’ve lost my bonus though which should have been paid in a couple of weeks.

I’m now frantically trying to write a grievance whilst searching for solicitors. I’m going to be out of a job and I’m devastated- I loved that job and I was good at it. I have young children to support and a mortgage and I’m so worried.

The recruiters I’ve spoken to have said there are no jobs at the moment.

I’ve referred myself to counselling because my mind and anxiety are spiralling out of control.

God she sounds like a major league arsehole. So sorry to hear.
I would definitely seek counselling to help support you during this time. Maybe also speak to ACAS if you haven't already? And have you tried Headspace mediation? I find it so useful when work is stressful.
You will find a new job don't worry, you just have to get through the next few weeks. There will be light at the end of the tunnel!

Fucking hell she's like a wrecking ball isn't she?

I'm so sorry @Greenergrass40 I don't know much at all about the legal side, but can you get some legal advice? Hopefully your covered with your home insurance. Plus ring ACAS perhaps?

I don't know what sector you're in. I did think you might have been in finance for some reason, apologies if this is not the case. I've just redone my own cv which took a long time tbh, but I've applied for loads of jobs on indeed, cv library and total jobs and had quite a good response - mainly from indeed - but unfortunately, nothing I'm really interested in at the minute. It's difficult though when you're not in the right headspace and you've got all this going on in the background.

Do you think you could get signed off sick? Just to give yourself some breathing space?

I'm sorry this has happened to you. This woman sounds like a complete fucking psychopath. You won't win against her as sounds like she's got them all dancing to her tune. I hope your able to at least get a decent settlement from them.

Again, I'm certainly no legal expert, but how can the cite performance issues when you've been there 5 years plus with absolutely no concerns other than ones raised by her in the last 3 months? Does this mean that your own manager is also incompetent for failing to spot these terrible errors in the whole time he was managing you?

You know she'll be gunning for someone else once she's managed to get rid of you don't you? I used to work with someone exactly like this. She was deeply insecure (rightly so, imo, as she was fucking shit herself) and managed to drive the entire team of 6 away one by one. I still follow them on social media and I don't think she's changed judging by how many new team members they keep "welcoming" only for them to disappear a year (or less) later.

Thank you, I just feel so shocked and panicked.

She’s breached the stress management policy so I’m raising that, and they’ve breached the health and safety law.

She also hasn’t documented anything. She claimed she offered me support in meetings and I turned it I’m down but I didn’t receive minutes to review from any of them or any of the recent meetings.

I don’t know if they’ve breached the PIP policy because they don’t have one.

Well if she's failed to document any of this "support" then it didn't happen.

Although I'm no legal expert, I do have experience of taking a previous employer to an Employment Tribunal. It was a long time ago now, but it was really easy to do, especially as I had loads of time on my hands as they made me redundant whilst pregnant. I sued for unfair dismissal, failure to consult on a TUPE transfer and I think sex discrimination as well. We had to have a meeting at the ET offices as it was complicated apparently, and they were told I was clearly going to win as they had no records to support any of their claims and were "encouraged" to go to a side room with me and settle. Which they did. This was almost 20 years ago, so my memory is a bit sketchy on the details. I do remember with crystal clarity the pain on my ex MDs face as he wrote a cheque out for the first installment of £5k!

I was worried that word might get around that I was a trouble maker, but it never did. And I was able to take a full years mat leave so every cloud....

So after a letter from your doctor stating that stress can exacerbate your condition, they immediately subjected you to a long and stressful meeting?

She didn't document the meeting but brought her friend along which made it seem a 'quasi-formal' meeting rather than a 1:1 catch up. Did she explain what her friend's role in the meeting was? Were you also offered the opportunity to bring someone with you for support?

What does your bonus policy actually say about granting/withholding a bonus? Just that it is at the manager's discretion, or is there something more?

I agree with @Fallenangelofthenorth that the reference to a project 5 years ago is obviously ridiculous. As well of the records of how it was resolve, do you have a record of your appraisal following the date of this project and was it satisfactory/did you get a bonus that year? If so it is even less appropriate to raise it now; but it is highly inappropriate anyway.

Did she offer you support in the meeting, or is she lying about that? I would keep your own records of the meeting, just details of all the principal points discussed.

From what you have said this woman is out to break you and isn't being at all subtle about it. HR seem really useless too.

I agree that a formal grievance is your only recourse now in this workplace; however an important proviso is that you need to absolutely prioritise your health, and should consider the stress a formal process will cause you. I am absolutely not saying don't do it; just that your health and wellbeing must come first.

Do feel free to pm me if you would like some help in formulating your grievance.