To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

The actual word I used was could which has a very different meaning than would or will. It's right there in the post if you go back and look.

So you are continuing to misrepresent what I actually said.

Blossom has said that she is happy with the current laws (which are allow men into women's single sex spaces) and will be happy as a pig in muck. She said that.

I said yesterday I was going to retreat from this thread and that is what I will do.

Perhaps if you all agree with me that women's single sex spaces should be protected you will start hounding the right people about it rather than shooting the messenger.

"I was simply stating what national newspapers have reported on."

According to Conservative propaganda platforms, the Daily Heil, and probably the Telegraph, the Express, and The Sun - the places you go for thoughtful, balanced reporting on gender issues. 🙄

Because this government will work this issue to the bone - they literally have nothing else to campaign on as by every metric the lives of ordinary people are worse now than they were in 2010.

What a mess - the attacks on lifeturnsonadime from some posters who wilfully tried to misrepresent what she had said

Jesus christ. Lifeturnsonadime is the one who has put words into the mouths of others on this thread. "Translated" my words.

You will never win the hearts and minds of others this way. In the words of Logan Roy, you are not serious people.

I'm out.

"Blossom has said that she is happy with the current laws (which are allow men into women's single sex spaces) and will be happy as a pig in muck. She said that."

You mean 'the current laws which allow the 0.3% of the population that are trans women into women's single sex spaces'.

It's obviously really important you don't acknowledge you're talking about trans women in regard to this issue, because otherwise people might think you're being unreasonable in constantly pushing the idea that this tiny, tiny marginalised group are a meaningful threat to the safety to all women.

izimbra no man should be in a single sex space for women. Not even one.
And the idea that TW are a marginalised group? Laughable!

Maybe you could too instead of assuming that everyone who's appalled by Labour's misogyny is a die hard tory voter. There's a lot of projection going on here.

@AdamRyan

lifeturnsonadime · Yesterday 22:43

BIossomtoes · Yesterday 22:40

Which people?
The people who thought anything was better than the tories and thought that Labour would reverse the harm to women's single sex spaces caused by gender ideology. They believed it was all the awful Tories who hated women.

They'll realise Labour didn't care enough to fix it and in fact made it even easier for men to be falsify their birth certificates.

They'll know this because nothing will improve even under Labour. If they raise it they could be guilty of a hate crime.

Awful really. Why won't Labour put this right? Can anyone answer that ?

This is what I actually posted. Where did I said that Labour WOULD make it a hate crime?

Answer I didn't. I said could which, as you have pointed out Adam, has a very different meaning.

As the papers have reported that Labour indeed could make misgendering a hate crime, what exactly was I 'making up' ?

Edited I misread the post.

Most males per se aren't abusers. There's no justification for talking like this about some males (TW) and not others. This does not make an argument for allowing TW, some of whom are abusers, into female spaces.

See you on the next FWR thread? 😀

Not being mean all welcome. More discussion the better

Just for accuracy saying people will ask the 'where the feminists were' is not the same as accusing people of not being feminist.

One might argue that's another misrepresentation of what was actually said.

OK I apologise for writing would instead of could. That was unintentional because I didn't go back and check.
Neither of those words are "might" though. Might Implies doubt.

Do you actually believe Labour will make misgendering a crime?

It's really interesting that Tufton Street are being so influential in this, demonstrates that its always worth checking sources. Conservative think tanks are unlikely to have the inside track into Labour's plans, or the motivation to report on them impartially.

Thank you for coming back to say so.

I should have checked which word I used before posting that I'd said might, I was careful though not to say that they would do it because I know that would have been misrepresenting the position.

As for do I believe they will? I really hope they don't, I'm not as certain as you that they won't given recent interviews with LGBT media and the general treatment of Rosie Duffield etc. Plus I am suspicious when a lawyer is failing to pick up that changes to the Equality Act will be required to ensure women's single sex spaces can be reserved and then, of course there is the continued nonsense (required because of bad laws maybe) that some women have a penis. None of that gives me confidence that Labour won't make misgendering a specific hate crime. Time will tell.

I'd prefer to deal with the concrete harms women are facing today. Such as having to wait several years for their rape cases to reach court. During which time I believe they can't access therapy in case it alters their recall of the incident.

Or women who can't find a childcare space so are financially dependent on their abusive partner.

Or women's refuges being closed down.

Yesterday I went to the GP who had a huge sign saying "Men are victims of domestic violence too". Culture wars in the GP waiting room, I was outraged. No indication of where to get help, just a general scolding tone.

The fact labour might make misgendering a crime is not really registering with me. I really highly doubt they will. Women managed to pressure the Conservatives to U turn on self-ID, I have every confidence they can do the same with labour should that threat reappear.

Thank goodness for you. I really respect this, there are a lot of one-issue feminists on Mumsnet who turn a blindeye to all the other outrageous things women are subjected to.

I also think focusing on the part about Labour's possible intentions about making misgendering a specific hate crime, perhaps deliberately, misses the broader point raised in that and other posts on this thread which is why won't Labour address these concerns about the difficulties with the single sex exemptions following the Haldane Judgement.

Whether you believe Bandenoch will actually make the amendments or not is irrelevant to the fact that Labour is not addressing the potential problem?

All of those things concern me.

Plus women's rights to single sex spaces.

Plus whether Labour is going to walk headlong into furthering the cause of the gender ideologists.

These issues do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Labour aren't in power so can't address the potential problem. The only party that can are the Tories.

Labour have done as much as they can at the moment, which is to say they support any review to clarify, and that they believe there will always be a need for single sex spaces for biological women only.

Who are you planning to vote for dime?

Well maybe not one that Ofcom doesn't classify as a "news" channel as a very low starting point?

All parties have the ability to use the manifesto to get mandate

It’s prime time to influence right now for all parties

After is too late. So more on it now - great

Rishi’s comments are common sense and I think it’s awful that this issue could potentially be what swings the vote one way of the other, probably in Rishi’s favour.

Biological sex being important in terms of women’s safe spaces, medical care and sport, and protecting children, shouldn’t be something that is questioned. I’m annoyed that this issue gets so much attention. Sometimes I can’t believe that we are where we are with this issue. How the fuck did it get to the stage where we have people frightened to acknowledge biology? I mean, I know how we got here, but it’s so ridiculous that it feels like a bad dream.

I’ve always voted labour, despite the fact that we are personally probably be better off financially under Tories, as I think they’re better for society as a whole, but I don’t think they’ll get my vote this time due to Starmer’s comments on this issue. I can’t vote Tory though and I know a lot of others who feel the same.

I live in a Tory stronghold, there is little chance that Labour will be elected here. I have written to my Tory MP on this issue several times.

If Labour commits to the things I have said I would like them to commit to to protect women's rights then I will vote for them. They don't even doorstep here because the chances are so slim but I've written to the local labour candidate to say what my feeling on this.

If the SDP or the new Party of Women field a candidate (unlikely as this is a stronghold seat) then I will vote for them.

If Labour do not change their position regarding amendments to the Equality Act then I will spoil my ballot as I have in the past.

I think even if I lived in an area where there was a chance of Labour success my position would be the same.