Why is Starmer Standing by Azhar Ali?

[Dogfisher]

AIBU to think that he should be out on his ear for his blatant anti-Semitism? I actually thought that Starmer was dealing with this in the LP - but this seems to suggest otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/12/labour-criticised-for-backing-rochdale-candidate-after-offensive-israel-remark

You have got that the wrong way round, the Tories manifesto is, 'attack' what are their policies, oh hang on tax cuts which we can't afford and won't work!

Apart from being anti-Jew, it also shows he's particularly stupid either for falling for such a stupid conspiracy theory, or for believing others are so stupid for believing he fell for a stupid conspiracy theory. Do the voters in his area really want an elected representative to be so stupid??

I clicked on this thread expecting to see universal condemnation of this man and Labour's failure to suspend him.
I should have known better. Is it just MN that is riddled with anti semitism or is it representative of British society? I despair.

@Growlybear83 Galloway that pretended to be a cat on big brother? Can't see why he wouldn't be taken seriously?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260.amp

For years, units of young female conscripts had one job here. It was to sit in surveillance bases for hours, looking for signs of anything suspicious. In the months leading up to the 7 October attacks by Hamas, they did begin to see things: practice raids, mock hostage-taking, and farmers behaving strangely on the other side of the fence.It was clear to some of these women that Hamas was planning something big - that there was, in Noa's words, a "balloon that was going to burst".

We do have free speech in this country. Given all the reports like this^^ I'm not surprised some people feel the security services of Israel must have deliberately ignored the signs (I'm in the cock up rather than conspiracy camp personally; I think the IDF wrongly assumed their defences couldn't be breached and were complacent).

The candidate has fully apologised now and there isn't time to take him off the ballot. I think this is being used as a smear building on the Labour reputation for antisemitism.

Same

This thread is about an MP saying that Israel knew the Oct 7th attacks were happening and connived to allow them, for their own ends.

Its helpful to read and understand the thread before responding to others. It helps prevent misplaced attacks.

Because what he said is not antisemitic.

I don't understand what that has to do with it? But may explain the bias.

Careful about criticising Israel killing children for the past 4 months. That's probably antisemitic as well.

But you know... better not vote Labour, just in case!

He said that Israel reduced security to allow the attacks to justify going into Gaza. Portaying jews as 'deceitful conspirators' is literally part of the definition of antisemitism, as set out by the IHRA.

@Yorkshirelass04 that was in answer to your question.

It's very curious that some posters on this board are more likely to trust the Israeli government's actions than our own MPs.

I'm disappointed that the Jewish community worldwide is not demanding a more moderate government in Israel, not least because the current policy in Israel is putting a target on the back of Jews all over the world.

Basically everything is the fault of the Jews but no antisemitism here people 🧐

I'm local to Rochdale. It's definitely tactical. Many Labour voters are turning to Galloway and by allowing this to be said clearly Labour hope to get some of the voters back. I personally hope Tulley wins or Paul Ellison both are local to my area and want change. I really hope Ali or Galloway don't get in but to be honest that's what I think will happen.

The Israeli government does not get a free pass from criticism. And criticising them doesn’t make anyone anti semitic. I will defend my right to criticise any government until I’m blue in the face. Christ knows I criticise the Tories enough!

Nobody is arguing that you cannot criticise the Israeli government, I certainly do. However do you believe the Tories allowed the Manchester bombing to happen to strengthen their campaign & retain power?

@sorestupid tell me your antisemitic without telling me eh?
Just one big humongous pot. Better give Bibi a bell!

Thank you for this. It so neatly illustrates the dishonest, diversionary tactics in argument that I referred to earlier.

Surely people can see this

It's too late to change candidate. They might well select a different candidate for the general election, particularly if he only wins a narrow victory.

Of all the stupid posts I have read on Mumsnet in the decade plus I have been on here, this has to be the stupidest.

@notherday Diversionary tactics? Or just not being willing to condemn a Labour MP and refuse to vote Labour?

When you look at what Israel are doing, it's a massive stretch to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm local to Rochdale. It's definitely tactical. Many Labour voters are turning to Galloway and by allowing this to be said clearly Labour hope to get some of the voters back. I personally hope Tulley wins or Paul Ellison both are local to my area and want change. I really hope Ali or Galloway don't get in but to be honest that's what I think will happen

Yes this makes a great deal of sense to me. AS a poster said early on in the thread - it's tactical and it's gutter politics. I guess that explains why Starmer is letting it slide.

Our government is accused of deceitful conspiracy on here most days. Conspiring to deliberately wreck the NHS so they can sell it. Conspiring to let thousands die of covid so their rich friends can reap benefits from disaster economics. The US government was accused by countless people all over the world for either 'letting' 9/11 happen or even staging it themselves. Not to mention all the trumped up justifications for our own involvement in the Iraq war.

Why should one country be immune from accusations of conspiracy? Governments lie, don't they.

I am fully aware of the IHRA definition and I don’t agree it covers this case.

”Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions”

The IHRA section you referenced is regarding a particular kind of “conspiracy” accusation levelled at Jewish people - the “global secret Jewish power” trope which is clearly antisemitic.

In this case there is no allegation of a secret conspiracy run by “the Jews” such as the IHRA defines, rather one (albeit baseless and crass one) which claims the government of Israel allowed an attack to proceed in order to create a pretext for justifying invading Gaza. I’m sorry, but while his words were incredibly insensitive and stupid, it was a terribly misjudged attack on the Israeli government / security forces and not on Jewish people.