Why is Starmer Standing by Azhar Ali?

[Dogfisher]

AIBU to think that he should be out on his ear for his blatant anti-Semitism? I actually thought that Starmer was dealing with this in the LP - but this seems to suggest otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/12/labour-criticised-for-backing-rochdale-candidate-after-offensive-israel-remark

I’m a member of the Labour Party and I’m aghast.I don’t believe a word of his apology, and he needs to go immediately.

His excuse is stupid.

Exactly

You're right that some people may genuinely be ignorant of the long history of the nature of anti-Semitism and have absorbed anti-Semitic beliefs without realising it.

I suggest you read up on the sort of anti-Semitic tropes that have been in existence for centuries so that you can see this latest one as the clear part of that continuum that it is.

Starmer kicked Corbyn out after he lost the election for them big time. Before that, he was quite happy to sit in his cabinet (unlike some other MPs) and enthusiastically campaigned for him to be PM.

And Azhar Ali is not just some also-ran councillor, he is the leader of the Labour party group at Lancashire County Council and made these comments at a meeting of the Lancashire Labour group where he presumably thought these comments would be welcome.

Another not understanding how it's antisemitic

Agree very much with this.

He’s either antisemitic, or he’s a moron easily taken in by conspiracy theories. Either way he’s not fit to be a candidate.

And for those saying ‘I don’t see how it’s antisemitic’, then go and google antisemitic tropes.
Jewish people are fucking sick of having to explain it to you.

The majority of Labour activists are more concerned about islamophobia than they are about antisemitism. Not saying that’s the case with Starmer himself, but that’s where his foot soldiers are, and that’s the audience he needs to keep onside.

Starmer is prioritising votes over principle. I think it will backfire… it might lead to a win in this particular constituency, but it’s an own goal from a wider perspective because it shows the electorate that all his banging on about rooting out anti-Semitism from the party was bullshit.

Well said

(not Jewish but agree entirely)

@SquirrelsStars that even more concerning.

Neither support8ngb him, nor Starmer.... but I read the same, or similar, comments on the BBC website weeks ago, suggesting that Israel had been warned about an impending attack. Not seeing what is antisemitic about it. Wrong it may be ( I don't know what warning they did or didn't have, nor would a warning be of any help unless it was specific) but not antisemitic. I do not agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza. That doesn't make me antisemitic. A lot of Jews don't agree either - did that make them antisemitic?

Using " it's antisemitic" as a weapon to shut down discourse is anti-democratic. There is legitimate discourse to be had about the tactics of both Hamas and Israel. Trying to shut down that discourse won't solve the issues of the Middle East. He was insensitive, but not antisemitic. But of course you are perfect, so would never make an error...

He's an an anti-semitic moron easily taken in by conspiracy theories.

But of course you are perfect, so would never make an error...

An error? FFS. That's what you call his disgusting comments?

This.

This thread is really showing the truth of that phrase that if you don't teach people history, then history will repeat itself.

So here we have ancient anti-Semitic tropes in full light, and people seemingly can't recognise them.

Is this stuff not taught in history lessons anymore?

Starmer is prioritising votes over principle. I think it will backfire… it might lead to a win in this particular constituency, but it’s an own goal from a wider perspective because it shows the electorate that all his banging on about rooting out anti-Semitism from the party was bullshit

I agree.

@Neriah Using " it's antisemitic" as a weapon to shut down discourse is anti-democratic. There is legitimate discourse to be had about the tactics of both Hamas and Israel. Trying to shut down that discourse won't solve the issues of the Middle East. He was insensitive, but not antisemitic. But of course you are perfect, so would never make an error...

I agree with this, there are many antisemtic tropes which are disgraceful but to use that to say it is antisemitic to condemning an ultra right wing government, (who only a few months ago had many protests against their policies,) does nobody any good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/28/israeli-military-had-warning-of-hamas-training-for-attack-reports-say
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

Just a selection of the news reports....

But these threads are not about facts. Let's label something antisemitic/ islamaphobic / woke or whatever the latest insult is to shout down any debate. I'm not interested in continuing a discussion with people as bad as both sides in this war.

As I previously said, I’m a LP member (I’m also a member of the JLM and I’m also disgusted by their approach to this). Fuck knows what Louise Ellman is thinking too. Of course the ‘it was a scam’ wankers are loving this, if just gives them ammunition.
I’m appalled.

This is a very disingenuous post.

It starts by badly misrepresenting what has been said and condemned as anti-Semitic.

It wasn't just the allegation that Israel was warned about Oct 7th. (And FYI security agencies, in all countries in the world including our own, get shit loads of warnings about impending attacks and they have to assess which are most credible. Its not an exact science and the fear of all agencies is that they will make a wrong call one day).

The anti-Semitism comes from the fact that Israel definitely knew an attack was coming and DELIBERATELY allowed it, so that they could destroy Gaza/ Palestine. As I said above, its this caricature of Jews as bloodthirsty and secretly collaborating behind the scenes, this reversal of Jews as victims to Jews as perpetrators, that makes it anti-Semitic.

Pointing out this anti-Semitism is legitimate and again, you are reversing Jew from victims to perpetrators when you try to shame them and label them as ' 'anti-democratic' for doing this.

The anti-Semitism comes from the fact that Israel definitely knew an attack was coming and DELIBERATELY allowed it, so that they could destroy Israel. As I said above, its this caricature of Jews as bloodthirsty and secretly collaborating behind the scenes, this reversal of Jews as victims to Jews as perpetrators, that makes it anti-Semitic.

The Israeli army have killed 10 THOUSAND children in the past few months. They are coming across as pretty bloodthirsty to me. That does not mean I think all Jewish people are bloodthirsty.

Who really believes his views have changed 180 degrees? It's a disgrace and yet more evidence of how anti Semitic Labour continue to be.

Starmer is, as ever, trying to have it both ways. Getting splinters from sitting on the fence. Flip flopping.

He's terrified of losing the Muslim vote because of his stance on a ceasefire in Gaza. So he lets this guy off.

Perhaps the secret service did make an error, mistakes happen, complacency sets in etc. Maybe the government didn’t take the threats seriously. However the above is very different from saying the government specifically allowed the attack to go ahead for personal gains. I’m not sure why people can’t tell the difference.