XL Bully attack | 8 year old boy seriously injured

[ThisOldThang]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolboy-8-seriously-injured-after-28610020

"A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully.

Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby.

The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition."

IMHO the ban doesn't go anywhere near far enough and all XL Bullys need to be put to sleep.

AIBU?

That sends shivers through me. So glad that you got there in time. Some people just have no respect for anything or anyone.

Enough is enough. Shoot them all.

Not quite @Fionaville - they were bred to 'bait" a bull. Worry at it and anger it to provide "sport" for the men watching. Several dogs would be set on a single bull. They were bred for courage and tenacity - people used to bet on how long a dog could keep its grip on the bull's flesh once it got a hold, for instance, or which dog would get the first grip on the bull's nose. Bulls weren't killed every time (or even very often - a bull is expensive). It was believed IIRC that tormenting a bull before slaughter made the meat more tender. Dogs were also pitted against each other in fights. A high tolerance for pain was obviously also valued.

However they were also bred to be biddable - nobody wanted a fighting dog that was likely to rip their arm off when they took it out of the ring - and dogs were treated as dogs, not children, so they knew their place in the home.

But you are right in that they were much smaller and lighter than most of the staffies we encounter nowadays, and with smaller heads - more like a Plummer terrier build

So you had a courageous, tenacious animal which didn't give up, but which could be trusted around people (though not always around other dogs).

And a lot of children don't just "approach" dogs - they charge up to them, often shrieking and waving their arms.

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s any basis for justifying a dog reacting to a child, whether by frightening or attacking. A dog should be fully capable of restraint in public if this sort of thing happens.

And whoever mentioned ‘nanny dogs’, it’s rubbish. The term was a marketing ploy by breeders and bull breed fanciers.

All of these dogs should be put down and all of their owners lifestyle and means of living investigated as I bet 99 out of a hundred are criminals.

Intellectually and emotionally a dog is a perpetual 3-yo. (Though most dogs have better manners than the average pre-school child)

Would you expect a 3yo not to react if another child came barrelling unto them? Some would cry, some would cower, some would react aggressively.

The difference is that with the vast majority of dogs aggression is their very last resort.

Excuse me but, if your child comes shrieking and waving their arms at my dog and you or their guardian are not reprimanding them then they'll be put straight by me. Your child, you control them. I will keep my animal under control.

When did children NOT learn about safety in approaching other people's animals? We we taught this as children (in my 50s now) and parents took responsibility for what their children did.

I do think you are aware of the 'type' I'm referring to.

The majority of people that want an XL bully are the ones that i referred to, that want the 'look' and the street cred and sometimes see it as quick money by breeding them. The same sort of people that really want rottweilers, staffy's, etc before xl bully's became popular.

Also, theres far too many people now that want dogs and do not train them or carry for them properly. Especially the small dogs that people think can't do much damage.

Yes there are plenty of responsible owners out there that would do plenty of research of the breed and their needs and obviously do want an XL bully and would train it (and any other dog appropriately). But there are far too many idiots that do not do this.

Yes any dog can snap and I don't think children and any type of dog is a good mix.

Dogs are not children. Comparing the two is ludicrous.

Completely agree with making sure children are taught.

However we can never fully control a young child or an animal, nor can we be 100% prepared for any situation

Once I saw a couple queuing for an ice cream with their dog (on a lead, not a dangerous dog). A toddler quietly came out of nowhere and grabbed the dog from behind (the child was excited about the dog). The child was with his parents but had made a quick breakaway due to being excited and they hadn't caught him in time- literally just grabbing him and he grabbed the dog.

The dog, surprised bit the child's hand (luckily not badly).

In this situation it was no one's fault, but a child was still bitten.

They can be “put straight” by you, though I’d hope you’d be sensible enough to understand that children don’t have mature judgement. So some kind, non-threatening advice would be best, don’t you think?

But if you attack a child you’ll be in trouble. And if your dog attacks a child you’ll also be in trouble.

This is absolutely correct about the history of the sbt.
The breed standard is a maximum height of 16" for males and 16kg, and this is what good breeders produce, with health tests in place and temperament with people is the number one consideration.
These significantly larger bull breeds that people describe as staffies are crossed with other breeds and not bred to standard.
They are not bred with temperament in mind any more than they are health tested or created to improve on what we already have.
My first 2 staffords were rescues, and when I lost my original boy 5 years ago I spent 18 months looking for another rescue that fitted the breed standard, as I compete my dogs in agility and I like to show what a great breed they are with the right training.
Despite searching countrywide there was nothing under 4 years old that was suitable so I went on a waiting list for a health tested puppy from a breeder whose dogs I know to be an excellent type, temperament and that have successfully competed to a high level in dog obedience.
The wait was worth it as I now have a fantastic agility dog who is a great example of the breed in looks and temperament.

He is totally reliable as per the breed standard, and great around people. He ignores other dogs in group training sessions and in the highly exciting show environment.
I would not expect the same had I got a 'staffie' from the guy down the street who had put his dog to his mates bitch just because he wanted to make a few quid.

I fear that up to this point xl bullies have been bought by people wanting to cash in on their surge in popularity and equally little thought has been put into the temperament. I am afraid that any flaws in temperament would be viewed as the dog being protective and thus the creation of many ticking time bombs.
Going forward if these new laws are policed and anyone producing litters is heavily penalized then hopefully numbers will reduce, but ultimately the breeding of all dogs needs to be heavily regulated and dog ownership looked on as a privilege not a right.
Dog licenses, ownership tests, compulsory insurance.... whatever it takes to stop this downhill spiral and end the creation of newer and more dangerous weapon dogs.

I’m tired of people saying it’s the owner not the dog because , although that is partly true, EVERY dog lover knows that dogs have different traits built into their dna. Sheepdogs herd, retrievers retrieve , pointers point . It’s built into them after hundreds of years of breeding them for particular jobs . Bully beeeds were bred to fight, first bears and then other dogs, it’s in their dna or their genes, for want of a better word. They were bred to be aggressive , so making a new very large breed of dog from two bully types was asking for trouble in the first place , then them becoming a status symbol for a certain type of person who enjoys the fact that they are aggressive and so doesn’t have the first clue how to curb it or the inclination to do so, it’s a mixture for the disaster dwe are seeing now .
only today I heard a young mann with an XL bully explaining to an old woman that he thinks it’s unfair to keep his dog muzzled and on a lead all the time so he goes after dark with him to let him free. People will take these risks with their dogs but also , dogs will be getting so frustrated from being muzzled and constantly on the lead that they will start to get even more aggressive . It’s a vicious cycle ( no pun intended )

Owners...not the breed! There are thousands of them about yet only a few albeit increasing incidents. I'd put the bloody owners to sleep instead but obviously that's impossible 😆I'm not sure what the answer is but the ban will obviously have some effect. As with most things in life its a few bad apples in terms of terrible owners, which now impacts a dog breed where the majority have and probably will never do anything wrong. Humans can be vile !

2boyzNosleep, no, toddlers do not 'appear out of nowhere'. There were two parents (according to your post). The fault lies with them, no excuses. The result could have been far worse than being nipped by a dog. Darting out onto a road and run over?

My children were on reins; they darted precisely nowhere.

It is NOT the dogs fault. Its how they are raised!!

I have an EBT and she has been VICIOUSLY attacked by 3 ratty little dogs to the point she was bleeding from her neck, (she never fought back because i told her not to, but she was grumbling) my dog is 29kg of muscle. Trust me when i say if she wanted to rip them apart she could of easily, but she is a trained family pup. Shall we agreed then, that all fluffy little ratty dogs (who your more likely to get bitten by btw) who growl, shake and bear their teeth, but are small so its ok 👍 they should all be put down aswell? I was bitten by one of the dogs while trying to get it off mine, yes it drew blood! And the owner blamed me! That her three dogs off lead, attacked my harnessed dog! She had to have stitches in her neck, and now she growls at all small dogs when they come near 😔 so does my EBT deserve to be put down? NO!!
dogs need to be trained.

Which just goes to show that banning specific breeds/types doesn't work. Ban one big dangerous type, another takes its place. XL Bullies aren't even a real breed, just a cross of several different breeds to get specific results.

We need to bring in dog licences/registration that is coupled with obligatory training, and all breeders should be registered.

https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/

I haven’t read the whole thread so sorry if the above link has already been posted. I saw it on Gransnet a few days ago, and found it chilling. Imo, it proves that it is not just irresponsible owners who are at fault, but that aggression is now so in-bred in a great many of these dogs that again imo, there sadly appears to be no alternative other than putting these dogs to sleep.
Whilst I agree that dog licences/registration, etc should be made mandatory, how is this going to be policed?

Meh, I'm a cat owner. Haven't owned a dog since I was a teenager, so I don't have any allegiance to dogs, or dog ownership. It was an observation that over the years, various dog breeds have been in the news due to being dangerous. But it's always when they're 'fashionable' with a certain type of owner, who encourage them to be aggressive. Subsequently, they've adapted well to family life. Not saying that's the case with XL Bullies. But all the Staffies I've met have been lovely, placid, family pets. Yet still they have a reputation, because of what they were originally bred for and the type of people who they first became popular with.

I adore dogs. I do more than often blame the owner & not the dog... but these attacks are getting out of hand now. Its very concerning. Poor poor boy

I’d rather be bitten by a ratty little dog and have “bleeding”, than be mauled to death in a painful way by an XL bully. No comparison.

I don’t really get the debate over whether it’s the dog or the owner?

What comfort is that to the man woman or child with half their face ripped off or their life ended if you say it’s the owner to blame?
You can blame the owner all you want but if the dog has injured or killed someone the impact of that won’t be undone by saying “it’s not the dogs fault it’s how they were raised” 🤦‍♀️

It’s a bit like the argument against guns, yes it’s people behind the guns but the issue is if you make it relatively easy for most people to get a gun (like in America) a significant proportion of those will use it to commit domestic and other unlawful killings. Or sometimes they may even accidentally shoot someone. So the best thing is to restrict or reduce gun ownership.

Similarly with these super powerful dogs, which many effectively use like weapons - they’re easy to get so of course a large number of people who get them will be bad owners. And even a momentary lapse of judgment from a good owner can result in disaster eg. Dog escaping from a house into a crowd of small children.

As I said I don’t think it’s that relevant either way but FWIW I don’t buy the whole “it’s completely the owner fault”.

Dog lovers are always telling us dogs have different personalities and temperaments like humans. I can imagine so. So just as some humans are more short tempered, and aggressive than others, it makes sense that there will be variations in dogs too.
Additionally there’s cases of dogs with illnesses (eg brain tumours) that suddenly lash out and act outside of their usual self. If it’s a smaller /less powerful dog you’ll have a far better chance of survival.

And herein lies the problem. A ranty, slightly incoherent diatribe, devoid of any critical thinking. And it's precisely these sort of people, with the impaired ability to think, who laud XL Bully dogs.

No - expecting any sentient creature not to react to a threat is ludicrous.

But let me put it this way - if some stranger, gesticulating wildly and shrieking, ran at you in what you perceived as an aggressive manner, threatening and frightening you, and you had no way to run away and escape, would you try to defend yourself?

I’m a human being. I’m not a dog. I’m not a pet. Unlike a pet dog I am not an indulgence for a human to keep and take for walks and throw sticks for.

The same goes for my children. And for every other human, whether adult or child.

Please don’t compare me, or anyone else, to a dog.

Dogs in public should never present a risk whatever happens. That’s the long and short of it.