XL Bully attack | 8 year old boy seriously injured

[ThisOldThang]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/schoolboy-8-seriously-injured-after-28610020

"A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully.

Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby.

The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition."

IMHO the ban doesn't go anywhere near far enough and all XL Bullys need to be put to sleep.

AIBU?

Yes, this exactly. Your typical XL Bully owner will never own a decent car, they will never live in a decent house, they will never live in a decent area, they will never gain a decent education or earn a decent salary. One of the only ways they can gain prestige with their peers is to own a stupidly aggressive monster dog. No one higher up the socio-economic scale would be remotely impressed, obviously.

Abstract agree. There are very few suitable homes out there and they absolutely do not want this type of dog

Yes. This is what comes across very strongly in the 'it's not the breed it's the owner ' mindset.
Collies herd, labs retrieve. And until people accept that xl bullies have less favorable genetics which are overwhelming in their strength. We have a big problem.
I accept that like other genetics, ie collies, the strength is variable. However, while a collie with super strong genetics has an obvious job, the same cannot be said for the xl bully.

Blimey!

That dog could easily get its owner's head into its mouth - and with a bite force of 700lb/sq inch could just as easily crush his skull.

I'm assuming that poor boy was just out playing in his area. Wrong place, wrong time. I can't stand the thought that another innocent child or adult is going to be killed.
These beasts all need to be put to sleep. No exceptions.

Whilst I do feel a bit sorry for the dogs - after all, they didn't ask to be bred and born the way they are - they're an absolute menace. It IS the breed, bred for huge strength, aggression and tenacity.

Couple that with arsehole owners and it's a recipe for disaster.

They need to die out, whether naturally or otherwise. No rational person wants one.

Maybe so innocent members of the public are protected.

Right place. Wrong time. He had every right to be playing out.

If a kid wants to stroke a dog they should ask the owner. If the owner says no there is a good reason.

Indeed.

I have 3 spaniels. 2 are absolute tarts and will have a cuddle off anyone. The 3rd was ill-used before we got her and terrified of everything.

The number of people who insist "Oh, but dogs like me!" "My child just wants to pet your dog. S/he won't hurt them" etc really annoys me. They can pet the other two - just leave this one alone, ffs!

Many people do treat dogs as babies, which is totally inappropriate - but many more treat kids as lords and ladies who should be able to do anything they want at all times. Every child should be taught safe behaviour around dogs, in the same way that they are taught not to play with fire etc. It's just common sense and is for everyone's safety.

Yes. You're quite right. Poor lad.

The thing is, Staffies used to be bred for fighting and there was a time they were used as status symbols for undesirables. They too are a strong, tenacious breed that is banned in places like France. Yet these days, with the right ownership, they're a placid, gentle nanny dog that is great with children. Before staffies, it was Rotties. Before that, Alsatians and Dobermans. XL Bullies are a big, strong, dangerous breed because they're enjoying popularity with a criminal element in society who raise them to be aggressive. Who knows what they're like brought into a home as a pup and raised, trained and loved as a family dog, because that's not the kind of people who are drawn to them.

Really?

So if a dog had bitten the little shits who left him with little chip shop forks stuck in his face outside a chemist's while the owner got a prescription, he should have been put down?

He didn't. The vicious little bastards ran off laughing when I challenged them, and I stayed to comfort the dog for the few minutes it took for the owner to return.

Poor dog was shaking like a leaf. And he was a staffie. Frankly, if I could have caught the little sods I would have bitten them myself!

You show me a way to ensure that all of these dogs are properly bred from safe, good-natured stock, and purchased by responsible owners who will train, restrain, and socialise them, and then I will support your opinion.

Until then, keep your idiocy to yourself.

If the owners can't be controlled, the dogs have to be culled.

Poor dog. To be honest, I don't understand why people take their dogs shopping. Not that they can't or that they shouldn't, just for the safety of the dog. I would rather leave them at home. Not for the kids, for the dog.

I wouldn't have a minute's peace being in a shop or chemist knowing that my dog was outside on their own, I'd fear them being stolen.

In the good old days, people (mostly) left things along that didn't belong to them. Not any more. Substandard people breeding substandard offspring. So, so many of them.

A friend of mine is a dog trainer, runs a doggy day care and doggy 'hotel' and he thinks there is also an element of the XL Bully temperament that is completely unpredictable. He has helped to train some XL Bullys but now refuses them for doggy day care and hotel stay as he has seen sudden aggressive responses out of a few and doesn't trust them around smaller dogs or his kids.

There's no such thing as a nanny dog. There are many, many examples of bullies being treated as loving family dogs and turning on their owners, often their children, because that's what they are hardwired to do.

Nope. I’m fed of this apologist BS. Put them all down.

Nanny dog? No. No. No. This is an absolute crock of shit.

Dogs are beautifully behaved.....until they're not. And if that dog is physically capable of mauling people then that's when tragedies happen.

I occasionally used to take my dogs until I left one outside a shop once and came out to find her running towards me- lead still attached to the rail I'd fastened her to.. I couldn't understand how she was loose and asked the girl in the tobacco kiosk (which was beside the door) if she'd seen anything, and apparently a smartly dressed middle aged man had unfastened her - the girl in the shop just assumed it was his dog - and by sheer good luck I had come out of the other door and she'd seen me and shot towards me.

The bloke had just walked away.

I've never tied a dog up outside anywhere since.

Yes, really. Nobody - at least nobody in their right mind - would defend that sort of cruelty to a dog, whoever does it.

But what if the staffy had attacked whoever did this? Would flesh wounds to the assailants be ok? Loss of an eye? Both eyes? Huge disfigurement for life? Throat ripped out?

And how could you know the dog wouldn’t attack someone else in range, not the offender?

No dog should ever attack anyone. We might have more sympathy for a dog that reacts to concerted vicious torture, but that’s going to be exceptionally rare from strangers (most serious mistreatment of dogs is by their owners). And it’s not the point.

What MN dog lovers harp on about is children rushing up and stroking and poking. I do not believe that any dog should react violently to that. If it does it’s not fit to be in public.

(In any event, I don’t believe children do approach dogs in that way anything like as much as the dog lovers on here say. It’s mostly made up bollocks IMO, to try to justify out of control, antisocial behaviour of dogs and their owners’ condoning it.)

I have no time for aggressive dogs. Ultimately it’s more likely that my dog will be the victim.

but I have had multiple cases of kids trying to stroke the dog from behind or without asking and the two times kids tried to hit him.

I have a well behaved dog and I think children should be well behaved! I hate seeing kids trying to stamp on pigeons or throw sticks at squirrels. Basic respect for animals is important be they pets or wild

I'm in Scotland so different rules here, but I think they should all be PTS.

Horrible things.

We'll have to agree to differ @WhatsTheUseOfWorrying - because there are many, many idiots who insist on being able to touch any dog they like. And a lot of children don't just "approach" dogs - they charge up to them, often shrieking and waving their arms.

Every dog should have the right to defend itself. Usually it doesn't take anything more than a grumble to put people off - though there are some than then complain that it is a "nasty" dog. No, it's not - it's saying "I am ill/ unhappy/ frightened/ blind/ old and don't want people I don't know mucking me about". That is what a growl is for.

I will also add that very few dogs actually intentionally bite. Most will warn with a growl, and will try to get out of the way. If someone insists on being "in their face", they will air snap. If they do get forced into a situation where they feel they have no option, they snap at hands.

If a dog goes for the face it is because it actually is a bad/aggressive dog, or because the face is too close to the dog's - eg a toddler face (and the adults there should have kept dog and baby apart), or one of these twats who thinks it's very clever to approach a dog, walking stiffly and growling at it until face-to-face to "dominate" it. (IMO any adults doing this deserve what they get, but I wouldn't want my dog put down because of them, so I wouldn't let this happen.). The dogs also retreat once they have made their "aggressor" (for that's what they see them as) back off.

Cesar Milan has a lot of stupid, threatening, needlessly provocative behaviour to answer for, and people copying his techniques are often asking to get bitten IMO.

Edited to add: This particular type of dog is dangerous because they don't give any warning or an attack - and when they do attack, it IS an attack, not defensive behaviour. And because it is an attack they go for the vulnerable parts of the body - they'll bite at legs or use their weight to bring the victim down, and will often then turn the attention to the head and neck. They aren't attempting to escape a threat- they are prey-driven.

I think noone should be able to own a pet they cannot physically restrain. No matter what. There are some large breeds I love but if you cannot stop it or pull it away then you don't have them. I chose my dog specifically if he turns we can easily restrain him, all you have to do is stand on a high surface. He can bite, any dog has that potential but you'd get him off the person easily.

If you look at very old photos of Staffies, from a time they were referred to as the nanny dog, they are a lot smaller for one thing. Most of the staffie dogs people have now, have larger bully breeds in their lineage. I've only known one staffie that was close to an original staffie. It was smaller and it didn't have as large a head.
Even so, staffies were originally bread to be powerful enough to bring down a bull. That's were bull breeds came from. So, imagine that then adding in the bigger, more aggressive elements into bully breeds. These big dogs aren't meant to be family pets. You may as well bring a 'well trained' tiger into the house.