Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

I don’t believe that you have medics in your family for one second. Because if you did you wouldn’t be blowing smoke up Rishi’s arsehole.

They are striking because the current practices/state of the health service render it UNSAFE for patients. for that, they have my full support.

why haven’t your ‘family members’ pointed out how much ‘junior’ doctors actually earn? The term ‘junior’ alone is farcical because it is applied across a v broad range.

im just going to stick my neck out and say that I don’t think £85k is a very good salary for a consultant.

look at salaries for medics and healthcare workers elsewhere in the world - you do realise that doctors are required to have more than 2 brain cells and the intellectual capability required of recruits is extremely high and there aren’t many in the pond? If my children had the capability to become a doctor, I’d genuinely hope they would choose something that paid better and wasn’t quite so stressful.

That’s not my experience. I’m currently receiving NHS outpatient care and it’s been brilliant. The nurse who did my obs and the junior doctor I saw were respectful, friendly and treated me like an intelligent human being.

How did a patient under GA suffer from a surgeon’s “tantrum”?

Instead of improving pay and condition you are proposing to worsen them.

I’m a consultant anaesthetist who left the UK, I’m paid multiples of my UK salary and have much better conditions. It’s used to be very rare to permanently leave, but is becoming more common. Several of my old colleagues are now arranging to leave. Unless you want to cause a huge exodus this would be an awful idea.

The US is changing its licensing regulation which will make it much easier for UK doctors to work there. I do think there will be serious issues with UK retention of doctors, once that happens.

I’m very happy for healthcare workers to strike for better pay and conditions to reduce the staff shortages that have lead to a more dangerous NHS. Do you want a doctor with too many patients at the end of their 2nd 12 hour night shift with no break or one who is well rested and with enough time to focus on your needs?

We do not have enough doctors, nurses or midwives. In a capitalist system we either have to improve pay and conditions or import cheaper labour from overseas. This has moral implications as other countries lose their doctors and nurses to us while ours all go to live and work in australia after we’ve funded their studies. It’s utter madness that could be solved very quickly if our government wasn’t so determined to undermine the NHS and privatise it. Funny you mention Jeremy Hunt.

@MixedCouple why do you assume that because someone expects a salary commensurate with their skill level and years of study and exams they have put in that they are in it for the money? That's just normal thinking across professions. Just because they think like that doesn't mean they have no bedside manner or don't care. Strange assumptions.

A doctor's training is "funded by the tax payer" to the same extent that a bin man or a civil servant's training is funded by the tax payer. Doctors provide a service and learn on the job through consulting with seniors, as in many professions. There is no suggestion that other public sector employees should be beholden to the government instead of taking the skills they learned on the job (tax-payer funded) to a private sector organisation.

I guarantee that a junior doctor provides more value to the hospital on their first day than any other day one graduate employee.

Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some

The government have done a number on you, making you believe all healthcare professionals should do it for the love of the job. Fuck off. Yea they should want to do the job but also because of pay for the years and hours of training. Should teachers work for free? Or road sweepers if they love their job? Or lawyers who enjoy their job?

My idea is not new - this idea was rightly talked about by the respected Mr Jeremy Hunt - see below and why not?

Now I know you’re just here for shits n giggles. Gave yourself away with that little gem. 🙄

That is not what I am doing, I am responding to a mumsnetter who said doctors strike as a last resort saying that not all of them do.

I don't support the Government at all.

But as a former nurse and all my immediate and extended family working/worked their entire lives in the NHS I am totally against the strikes. My priority was always patients' lives.

What a ridiculous thread. There will be no doctors left in this country soon and people like the OP will be moaning

Wonder if Op is resentful and jealous of the family members that did get into medical school…. 🤔

@Willyoujustbequiet the doctors are striking precisely because they care about patients' lives and they have nowhere else to go to be heard. If you have spent all your working life in the NHS, I would have thought this would be within your comprehension. Maybe things weren't as bad when you were there?

@Willyoujustbequiet as a former nurse

Curious to know how long ago you left? There is always emergency and basic cover for strikes. Lives are not at risk. Probably less at risk than normal, the ambulance service couldn't meet their minimum striking staffing levels last strike, as it was higher staffing than they function with on a normal day!

I keep telling Dr child to get out and get a decent job, but at the moment they are wedded to the principles of their NHS

Noones right to strike should be removed

respected Mr Jeremy Hunt

😂😂

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator if you still don't think doctors are leaving...

This is exactly my thought. Green eyed monster as not able enough to get into medical school.

Strikes don’t work as evidenced by the rail and drs

the only people impacted other than the man on the street is them, they don’t get paid

the rail people, well will users go back if they have found another way?

drs ok we need them, but they know pay when they join and once past the apprenticeship of junior dr they can earn far more

Strikes work as is evidenced by the long history of protest, employment & civil right rights in the UK & across Europe.

@Tinkerbyebye junior doctors are not apprentices. They are fully qualified professionals with years of study and training behind them. The 'apprentice' narrative is what the Tories are now using to imply they do not deserve a proper wage for the highly skilled work they do. I see you for what you are.

I work for NHS. Any doctor below the rank of a Consultant is called a junior doctor. Senior House Officers, Registrars and Senior Registrars - they are all junior doctors in this bizarre NHS terminology. By the way, Consultant pay is £85k. Hardly a life shattering amount for the training they have gone through, the family sacrifices they made and for the responsibilities they carry

I’m furious at this post but maybe it’s a wind up or something. Junior doctors pay is a total disgrace. They could earn the same working in Aldi or similar, probably better pay in Aldi tbh 😂
My DD 2 is working in Australia as an F3 - after a torrid 2 years in the UK - presently on double pay and very well supported. I’ve told her very reluctantly not to come back soon but she is. Her contemporaries are mainly doing locums to earn a decent wage. I actually can’t believe how doctors pay has got this low. I’m a band 5 bank nurse and I earn more than her - go figure?!
OP you haven’t got a clue. The brightest brains, who have jumped through a million hoops to get to where they are, who work the most unsocial hours, working in very unsafe conditions, are paid a pittance. Scotland has achieved a decent pay negotiation- we need to follow suit.

Is not an apprenticeship, this title of Junior totally misrepresents the level of these Drs. They are hospital doctors and house officers and senior house officers.
They need to earn more money. The Dr who will save your life in A and E is a junior doctor not an apprentice FFS