Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

The government don't fork out millions every year getting people trained. After 5 years at medical school (5 hour drive from his family as accommodation up north is so much cheaper) he has £80k of student debt. This was with substantial help from his parents.

He now faces spending around £3k a year on his continuing education when earning under £30k as an FY1. Plus his professional memberships.

he went into medicine with rose tinted spectacles. As every 18 year old does. I counselled him very very strongly against it.

The whole "they knew what they were getting themselves into" is utter crap. We need to encourage people into medicine, not discourage them.

Everyone should have the right to strike, regardless of job.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator suspect you're just on a wind-up here but whatever they join expecting, they SHOULDN'T be working under those conditions. Nor should teachers be working the hours they do for the money they do. Mineral miners in unsafe mines in Africa know what they're getting into but that doesn't make it right.

Hence the mandatory clause that I posted about. Why should we the taxpayers train someone for 5 years and then they go to another country?

I refer you to my post made at 13-16hrs.

People moving jobs and going to another country is nothing new, trust me it happens all over the world hence the professionals we get from Australia , India, New Zealand, ie doctors, nurses, ot's, pt, and radiologists to name a few.

My idea is not new - this idea was rightly talked about by the respected Mr Jeremy Hunt

Oh, you are joking, OP!!! This whole thread is just a pisstake because surely no one would seriously call Jeremy “his own rhyming slang” Hunt ‘respected’.

My DC started training 11 years ago, still a junior Dr. They expected excellent pay and conditions , which were good at the time they went to uni. I'm not sure they'd have gone if they d have known it would stagnate and conditions worsen.
so absolutely, 11 years ago they did not expect this shit show.

The difference is that doctors and nurses ARE leaving the profession.

In an ideal world, yes!! In the real world, no.
As I said before, I'm aware you can't strike in certain professions and those joining are aware.

If I was younger and wanted to train up as a doctor, TBH, I'd look at the pay and conditions, no-strike clause if any and any madatory working agreements post qualifications and make a decision

Have you ever worked on the wards?
We have no staff, it's dangerous. Doctors/nhs staff various bands we all need paying more to make people actually want to work for us. The low staffing levels are what's dangerous. It's scary.

So are doctors and nurses in other countries that come to the UK to work.

This is not a new scenario and has been the case for years and applies to most countries.

Other than the Tory faithful who exactly is Jeremy Hunt respected by?

Bully for you. It would be interesting to come back to this post in 15 years and compare current T&Cs with the 2039 T&Cs. I suspect they'll be very different (if there even is still an NHS). I mean you're saying yourself they should implement a no-strike clause - someone could have spent the past 10 years studying to be a doctor and you'd spring that on them? I also think this is a pisstake as you're undermining your own argument

I'm a doctor. I'm off sick with stress. Mostly caused by patients aggressively demanding drugs, referrals, instant cures, to drive despite medical problems, and complaining when I can't ok that. Day in, day out. No one is paid enough to put up with this.

Soon, doctors will work privately, to manage their own workload, lists etc. Certainly in primary care. If you can't afford it, you can have a PA, trained for 2 years. And they'll only last a few years in the job, but they only take 2 years to train, so that's ok. People will suffer.

And you know whose fault this isn't? Mine, and my colleagues. We tried to tell you all.

Have you experienced these new (mainly) nurses? Lots have qualified abroad, are not familiar with UK protocols or medicines, have a basic grasp of the language. Years ago one dangerous nurse could be covered for because a ward would have 4 good nurses. Now it's more like 3 dangerous nurses and one poor sod in charge trying not to let them kill anyone. Oh and when I say 'in charge', that can be a band 5.

i used to be in the military - the arrangement for those and others who can't strike is supposed to be slightly better pay and conditions, and that they are looked after in terms of healthcare and pensions.

Since the government are standing by while ex-service personell are homeless, having a mental health crisis and so on - frankly i think they should be able to strike too.

If medical staff could be guaranteed not to have to regularly work massive amounts of overtime which impacts patient safety, and could be guaranteed good pensions etc, then and only then might i think it would be ok to ballot them on this.

The more you post, the more you demonstrate your complete ignorance towards the issues we are currently facing within NHS staffing.

Just in case the many posters have not made it clear to you - the current pay and conditions for medicine are absolutely no reflection of the research the majority of doctors undertook before starting their degree. This is why they are striking 🙄. Add on removal of their ability to strike and you may as well wave them off to another profession/another country.

If would do you good to remember those who become doctors are some of the brightest we have in this country and they have a huge range of opportunities, may of them much better paid and with much better conditions then medicine. Perhaps we should focus on not pushing them out the door?!

Why single out doctors and nurses for not being allowed to strike? Why not all public sector workers, or all workers in general?

To me it demonstrates an othering, a dehumanising of the people in these jobs. Doctors and nurses serve you, therefore they should be treated as minions with less autonomy, less status and less pay. Rather than appreciating that the choice to work serving the public is worthy of respect. That's not saying healthcare workers are morally better than anyone else (they are not) but that it's totally backwards to punish public servants with fewer rights than their counterparts. It's sheer entitlement.

Why wouldn't you read a book Your Life is in My Hands by Dr Rachel? Or It's Going to Hurt by Dr Kay? You worked 9-5, Monday to Friday for the Council. No night shifts, no weekends, no Christmas Day shifts. Your pay hasn't been eroded by 35% since 2010. No wonder neither you nor your colleagues left when your contracts were changed.

I have to disagree with the they don't strike on a whim. A family member who is a doctor told me his co-workers used the strike to go on holiday during that time and also peer pressured him to go on strike too (he is a trainee so not getting along with his co-workers will affect his ability to get a job in that hospital)

Yabu Junior doctors deserve better pay and conditions so should be able to strike.

yabvu for calling Jeremy Hunt ‘respected’.

Good post

In an ideal world, yes, yes and yes all day long.

However, you will be aware how this government just like others has wasted the taxpayer's money and there is little money in the kitty.

I'm all for better pay for all inc carers, road sweepers, teachers, everyone and better working conditions for all and pay more for those on benefits and a better NHS, police force and armed services, What do you think is stopping the government from doing this,? I know you know the answer.

No

OP so much vitriol against doctors. I doubt you are as well qualified.

Genuine question did you fail to get into medical school?

Here's a crazy notion: sort the pay out and the strikes will stop 👍🏻

Almost definitely bullshit, given that strike negotiations can continue and the strike can be cancelled at any point. But they're not getting paid so I guess why not? Also - quite right to peer pressure him. Why was he not striking? Scab. Also they're all trainees numpty - it was the junior doctor's strike