Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

@LaMarschallin I moved jobs to get away from this sort of entitlement.

The area I work in now is very deprived but the people are generally nice.

However both areas couldn't recruit a permanent doctor - I only do locum. Have moved on from 2 jobs now where years later, they still haven't recruited a replacement for me so thats 2 services struggling on without a senior leader but still having to deal with the same number and complexity of patients.

Your attitude is vile OP. Hopefully the government you voted for will be gone soon.

They have no redress though otherwise do they? Really bad conditions ,not just pay and these are highly qualified people! Really bad if they cannot strike .They will just go abroad in their droves!

Please see attached OP.

Well, often legislation means that pay is the only legal ground on which to call a strike. I know that’s true for teaching, and we definitely care about more tha that. I don’t know if that’s the case f9r the doctors, but even if it’s all about pay it’s still about improving the service. The service is being damaged by overworked, unhappy staff due to a recruitment and retention crisis. Do you really think that isn’t affected by pay?
I know there are also capital improvement issues, but doctors aren’t responsible for that and therefore can’t strike to change it b

But you come across as spiteful and ignorant which is not a great combination. Walk a mile in the doctor's shoes then come back here to defend your disgusting attitude.

If Rishi was so concerned about wait lists I'm sure he would have addressed it sooner, the government have the power to end the strikes and are chosing not to.

Saying Dr's/nurses wouldn't leave is a big gamble, and one I would not be prepared to take. The departments I have worked for can't physically afford to lose more staff. You can't staff wards with no nurses and you can't reduce wait lists with no doctors. Many of my friends and colleagues have left the NHS, and we are finding it harder and harder to recruit.

Everyone should have the legal right to strike

So you want a better service, and you think staff are going to stay in that service if you take away the one way that govt can be held to account? Have you seen the numbers of healthcare professionals who are leaving, both in hospital and in general practice? Who is going to staff your 'better service'?

Each strike costs more than paying the requested increase
this is political not financial.
Anyine fancy the American system? That's what we'll get if Drs aren't paid and treated better. They'll al leave and the private health insurers will move in. And actually Drs will be better off, but strangely they are fighting to keep the NHS.

My profession went on strike for the first time ever in the professions history last year….it’s my feeling that the reason for striking is less about pay then about how it feels to work in a service that the government seems determined to destroy . Working in an environment where staff been have propping up the service by goodwill for many years, working over their hours, with no breaks and seeing the death, disability, misery and illness caused by not being able to provide health care worthy of a developed ,relatively wealthy country is soul destroying. Personally I think working to rule would have showed quite how flawed the service is. The Conservatives fairly plainly have never believed in the NHS and are successfully persuading people the NHS is no longer fit for purpose (true) and no government has been willing to bite the bullet to deal with the social care crisis that you can’t separate out from the NHS problems.

Police officers are not allowed to strike. I think it is really unfair.

Please quote the "human right" you are referring to

When I worked for the council, we had a pay freeze for three years I think. Many banged on about they'd leave. Not a single person left in my department during those three years. I can't recall if it was before the pay freeze or after but car allowances were to be drastically reduced. As our team went to people's homes in a big borough many said they'd work to rule and travel by public transport and I said I would not. Guess what, when the reduction in car allowance came, not a single member of staff that used a car used public transport.

Doctors have a pay review body called the DDRB which has consistently recommended such low uplifts that has resulted in doctors having disproportionate pay erosion in real terms relative to other healthcare workers and private sector workers over the past 15 years. Last year a Tory backbencher also admitted that the supposedly independent DDRB was rigged i.e. the government told them what the budget was before they produced their "independent" report.

The doctors' strikes came about because in 2022 the BMA (the doctors' union) asked the government for pay negotiation but the government refused any talks unless there was a strike mandate brought by the BMA. The government invited the strikes essentially. This is the nature of negotiation with the government.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-threat-cabinet-revolt-public-
sector-pay-rises-2473529

https://news.sky.com/story/junior-doctors-strike-set-for-march-if-industrial-action-approved-as-unite-confirms-walkout-by-ambulance-workers-12780979

That's nice for you but the reality in healthcare is staff are actually leaving, not making empty threats. The countless vacancies up and down the country clearly reflect this. The government are paying out millions for last minute locum shifts each year because the vacancy rate is so high.

The government refused to even come to the table and discuss pay at first. They have shown utter contempt for the staff and yet you are saying it is acceptable for them to remove the right for staff to withdraw their labour.

If that is the case, may I politely ask if those joining to train up as new doctors have their heads buried in the sand? IE not aware of the T&C's and long hours?

TBH, there should be new rules where we the state taxpayers fund new doctors' training to an extent, after qualifying to be made to work for the NHS for an X amount of time and this applies to other NHS staff as well ie nurses etc. Why should taxpayers fork out millions every year for someone to get trained and then go and work in another country without giving something back. That is not an unreasonable expectation!.

If I was going to train in a profession, I'd be naive not to consider, and investigate payscales, prospects, working conditions etc it is really as simple as that.

My idea is not new - this idea was rightly talked about by the respected Mr Jeremy Hunt - see below and why not?

https://www.gponline.com/doctors-face-four-year-mandatory-nhs-service-jeremy-hunt-expands-medical-training/article/1410975

A GP's starting salary may be £70k. (It isn't because GP salaries aren't controlled by the NHS as the vast vast majority of GP surgeries are individual businesses). But they will have done 5 years at University, and around 6 years of further training on £30k-£40k. They will be paying for their own additional training and exams, and will have been moved all round the country during the FY years with no real say in where they are moved. A GP will also be working 60-70 hours a week with next to zero work life balance. They will also literally have peoples lives in their hands.

When a person joins the police force, they are fully aware of their T&C, right?

Fully support the right to strike.

No. They should be allowed to strike.
Most the younger Doctors and Nurses I know are seriously thinking of going to New Zealand

Yes, it should be removed. If they care about people as much as they say they do then they wouldn’t jeopardise patient lives in the first place.

No , police officers are not allowed to strike . That's why we're all leaving instead . And the new ones recruited to great fanfare , are now practically running away in their droves .

Yes , we knew what we signed up for . and now we're signing out .

Police can't strike, armed forces can't strike, certain government departments like m15 can't strike.

It's not the front line staff that need sorting,

As I said before and I reiterate, NHS just like other professions always has and will have a turn-over of staff - that is the real world., people do move on

I also reiterate and no one has been able to answer this, are people joining the NHS not aware of what to expect??

This is also a feminist issue. As soon as a profession becomes more than 50% female. Employers start to take the piss on pay and conditions. Thankfully these women and men are standing up for themselves.

They are partly striking in protest at unsafe working conditions. If you take away that voice for them, you are making us all less safe.