Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

A better way to stop medical professionals from striking would be to treat them decently.

Lidl pay £11.40 to £12.30 an hour, which is band 3. A shift manager is £12.40 to £13.30 an hour, which is band 3-4. Not that I'm saying health professionals shouldn't be paid more.

I assume the poster isn’t ignoring it rather disagreeing with it.

As one of millions who have had their appointments repeatedly cancelled, including following three requests by my GP for urgent referrals, none of which has materialised. I have had 5 appointments cancelled directly as a result of the doctors strikes and it’s unlikely that any intervention now would reverse the damage to my failing heart caused by being unable to get the procedure done in a critical time frame.
So, at 70 my life expectancy has further reduced through the actions of these individuals.

@Tiddlywinks63 So, at 70 my life expectancy has further reduced through the actions of these individuals.

Yes, it's terrible what MPs have caused to happen to you

@TrishTrix

I paid out over 10grand in exam fees and revision courses that were essential for career progression. That weren’t even tax deductible in the early naughties.

And how many times have patients told you (quite aggressively on occasion) that they paid for your education and/or your wages with their taxes?
And you think: "No you didn't. Not even remotely".
The entitlement is staggering.

You're probably nicer than me and don't get frustrated about obnoxious patients.

Your entire argument is predicated on a mistake.

Waiting lists have been getting longer ever since the Tories got into power, and continue to do so - the strikes have made very little impact - (between 2-3% at most) if you look at the data.

The waiting lists will never be tackled until funding and resources are put right. I cancelled more theatre cases last year due to lack of implants, equipment, beds, anaesthetists, scrub staff, theatre space by a very wide margin, than I did due to the strikes.

I can't believe people are STILL stupid enough to buy the nonsense the government are spouting out in blaming HCP for their mismanagement.

Newsflash: Doctors, nurses and teachers all have an independent pay review body. The government choose to ignore their recommendations and come out with some nonsense about not being able to afford to pay the staff. Funnily enough, the money is always found when it comes to following the pay review body for MP pay though. I left the NHS when the government chose to ignore the body about pay after COVID lockdowns - staff were only good enough to receive claps, when it came to really showing their worth, they claimed they had no money (yet managed to give billions to their friends for contracts).

If you are not a doctor/nurse/healthcare professional, your opinion on whether they are paid enough has zero value. A job that pays enough has an adequate number of staff to get the job done, they do not need to take time off for stress/burnout and there are new joiners replacing those who leave. None of the above apply for NHS work. Until recently, many children of medics go into the same profession. This is also stopping - the overwhelming majority are encouraging their children to d anything but

Ha ha! What do you propose to do when no one signs such a ludicrous agreement? If forcibly implemented an immediate strike would ensue, more far reaching than anything we've seen so far, with a far greater impact on waiting lists. Do come and spend a day observing in any A&E department, appreciate the working conditions, and then give your head a wobble and come up with a more imaginative & realistic solution.

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy

You can't want to remove their right to strike while saying they should be awarded what they're striking for, that preposterous.

The right to strike should be sacrosanct.

Your life expectancy is sadly reduced due to chronic underfunding of NHS and mismanagement of staff. I am sorry you have been impacted so much but the doctors are not directly responsible, the government is

The strike isn't just about money, it's about safe working conditions, patients safety, retraining staff and recruiting staff.

Can you imagine going to work everyday knowing that you'll be on reduced work force, your work will be increased, your colleagues are burnt out, demand for your service is constantly increasing, you work longer than expected and are expected to work long hours, you are abused verbally and physcially by the public and you can't afford rent/mortage and at times rely on food banks. Wouldn't you want to the option to strike for better conditions.

The Government has brought in a huge raft of medically unqualified people called Physician Associates and Anaesthetists Associates, PAs and AAs and paying them over £40,000 per year. This is despite the fact they are not medically qualified, can’t prescribe, can’t order ionising radiation tests, are under the supervision of doctors and don’t have to work long out of hours shifts. They are also unregulated!
Please educate yourself with the chart below and then ask whether or not you think doctor’s should have the right to strike!
You should always ask who is treating you, you have a right to know.

Rishi and his government are responsible for the strikes not the doctors.

The answer is to pay the doctors enough then they won’t strike.

No. Doctors have overheads like the rest of us. The money isn’t even that great for a lot of them especially compared to other countries

I’m our trust my profession is working at less than 50% capacity. We just can’t recruit. Due to the nature of what we do without our input hospital re admissions will likely be higher. So not paying staff properly will not be cost effective in the long run. Keeping wages low is incredibly short sighted. We are all working our socks off but there’s only so much you can achieve with less than half the staff you should have.

Absolutely not. Junior doctors are being treated appallingly: pay, requirements, PAs being prioritised.

What can they do but strike?

I’m embarrassed for you OP that you chose to start a thread based on believing something Rishi Sunak said, rather than doing your research and looking at the actual data 🤦‍♀️ You honestly didn’t realise that the Government lie???

As you can see people most emphatically do not agree with you.

@LaMarschallin I get irritated by entitled patients too.

Fortunately due to my speciality (tertiary specialist) I don't see too much of it.

It's hard to stay away from the political with families. We often have to cancel long awaited surgery due to a lack of ICU beds.

We physically have the beds but post Covid we just can't staff them.

It's crap for everyone. But one thing won't change it - the family shouting at me when the operation is cancelled. I can't legitimately make a decision to proceed when there is no safe place to care for their loved one afterwards.

So that they can be treated like shit with no comeback?

At risk of being crucified here YANBU. As you’ve said, there are lots of other categories that are not allowed to strike. Also, the pay bands and career paths are quite transparent so people can make reasonably informed decisions. Plus, no one mentions the benefits which are almost unheard of in the private sector.

As shocking as it may come to some, not everyone working in the NHS is a selfless, dedicated professional. It’s the same as in any field, most are great, some are coasting and some are downright irresponsible. However, it’s not PC to say that, is it?

The OP seems to have drank the Tory Kool-aid and believes the likes of Sunak when he blames the staff for everything that’s wrong with the NHS instead of himself and his useless fucking government. Because he is a shithouse.

I agree with others- everyone should be allowed to strike. How can changes be made longterm otherwise? Yes people can quit if they’re not happy but then what? Who’s going to be replacing them if the working conditions and pay are terrible. We need all of these people- medics, law and order, teachers etc or our society is fucked. So we need to treat them better, not fall for the shitty Tory rhetoric and do our best to make sure those professions are valued.

Yabu.
In my unit we are at half trained nursing staff numbers. Despite this, we are still running elective surgeries despite not being able to provide care to the acute emergencies that are coming in. It means most shifts are running unsafely.
if the RCN could pull its finger out I would be striking again for patient safety.

As a nurse, I am on 50k. If I was private, who knows? Managing over 100 people, working across 3 areas. Trained to run resus and with over 20 years experience. Working minimum of an hour extra unpaid every shift. Not knowing what time I am getting home at. Constantly changing shifts to cover lack of staffing. Having staff in tears most days due to staffing, being moved.
You take away my right to strike, then I would leave. Think about it often enough, and agency work is very appealing.
and that is just me, if all NHS nurses and Drs chose to leave the NhS and do agency work- what then?

First reply nails it

Pay hasn't kept up with inflation though, so in 2007 when I applied for university the pay wasn't a reflection on what I'd earn in 2024 (not that we knew that then). Also, at 17, anything sounds like a good salary when you're earning £3.70 an hour in your Saturday job.

Also, can you please list the benefits that are almost unheard of in private sector? (And saying no one mentions them is ridiculous, the 'gold-plated pension' line is always trotted out so I'm curious to see if you know what we contribute and what we can take out).