Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

@kintra with respect, I not only gave birth to one, I've also helped several hundred become doctors. I get my info from lots of sources thank you. Bit rude to assume otherwise.

Under direction means what ? The consultant is not on the ward and comes to sign off scripts at 5pm ? Bit late if the F1 is not competent to prescribe as patient likely gone home.

Whatever though, they need FPR. Or DD will be in New Zealand in 18 months. Earning 3 times as much for half the hours 🤷‍♀️

Anyone know how much US Doctors make in comparison? Adjusting for the currency and cost of living?

No, the consultant doesn't 'sign off' anything, but ultimately the patient's care is their responsibility so if there's a significant clinical incident/SAER, their head will be on the chopping block. It's rarely the FY. That's what it means. Insurance for a pharmacist is higher than insurance for a registrar, due to legal culpability.

@Schlappe can't help with that as no doctor I know wants to head Stateside. Many to Canada, New Zealand and Australia. They pay about twice as much for a 35 hour week. And in many places now offer guarantee of specialist training. New Zealand give instant full residency now too.

@kintra ah OK. You know best. So why does DD have to pay indemnity insurance then ? If no one can sue her ?

It's not that nobody can sue her, but that the consultant will take the majority of the responsibility... Honestly, Idgaf about your DD 🤣 how embarrassing for a full grown adult that their mum is (incorrectly) arguing on their behalf on the internet

I don’t know about USA but a paeds consultant friend went to Australia recently after a lot of soul searching, having been wed to the NHS and its values forever. More than doubled salary, dramatically reduced hours, beautiful beachfront house and time to enjoy the lifestyle and their children. Who can blame them.

You can ask my DS who has had multiple appointments cancelled. He is in constant pain every day. He supports the strikes because he knows he will need the NHS for the rest of his life - his conditions are long term, chronic and incurable.

@kintra 😂😂 I'm not sure you realise how social media works. I'm arguing for ALL doctors. Is that really so hard to comprehend. I'd fight even if DD wasn't one, because I know many others who are. And I can read. And understand how the government are privatising the health service under our noses. But hey, you throw the insults.

Good to know F1s will only carry some of the liability, I'm sure that's great comfort at the GMC hearing. I know several who have had DATIX against them for v minor things and it's caused massive anxiety. The Shruti tree is there for a reason.

@mumsneedwine datix means nothing, we've all had at least one against us for whatever reason. I'm sure we all appreciate your support, but it's clear you don't really get it

Anyhow. Off out, with some medic friends (all v v consultanty now). And some v non medic friends. Enjoy your evening everyone.

And to all NHS workers, whatever their job. Thank you. You all deserve more than some members of the British public. ♥️

@kintra well one of us doesn't get it. But hey, you do you and I'll listen to actual foundation doctors at the coalface, not a random on the internet. Bye for now 👋

@mumsneedwine 🤡

PS if it's all the same with you I'll post your DATIX means nothing on the Doctors reddit page. Be good to get a varied perspective on it I think.

@kintra I love clowns. Thanks so much.

This is how the strikes have affected cancelled appointments to date

From the Guardian

NHS bosses, weary after 13 months of stoppages by various staff groups that have forced them to postpone 1.3m appointments and operations and cost the service more than £1bn, urged both sides to resume talks, as they did for a month last autumn.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/25/hospital-consultants-in-england-reject-government-pay-offer

BMA offered to postpone strikes in order for more talks, Govt turned them down.

Tell me again where the fault for this strike lies?

All that shows to me is that the Government would rather spend money on overtime cover (and agency staff?) than use that money for pay rises. An ideological choice rather than a financial one.

Exactly!!

Our trust is in a financial hole. The bulk of that hole is because we have to shell out for bank and agency staff. Because we cannot recruit the clinicians we need for the wages we pay. We even struggle to recruit good admin.

We need strikes because this government will not accept this - because they are ideologically wedded to cutting the public sector beyond the bone.

If we could pay for the staff we need at wages that they deserve, we wouldn't be in dire financial straits. The government wants to waste money on agency cover when they could be negotiating - it's clear where the responsibility lies.

I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny or have no idea what the longer term cost implications are.

Consultants get paid more than enough and their basic is 94k minimum.

If the gov caved into this lot, every will want massive rises.

Over a million people who work in coucils endured 3 years without a pay rise and they too are massively behind but CANT afforf to go on strike
These junior and senior doctors strikes inc nurses strike harp on about low wages but they can afford to lose weeks of wages, not sure how they mange that

You keep focusing on wages.

Aside from the fact that doctors earn much, much more in NZ, Aus, the US and even most of the EU, the fact remains that this isn't just about pay. It's mostly not about pay. It's about making people want to start work in the NHS and stay working in the NHS - that is how we get a well run, well staffed, efficient NHS and save massive costs by not having to pay for incredibly expensive agency staff and locum doctors.

The beans graphic should show even you what inflation does to someone's pay packet.

Thing is, you don't want to hear rational arguments. You just want to be right. Sorry, you're wrong.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator
You are being deliberately obtuse. Your username given your updates is a total misnomer.

As for the many HCP's on here trying so hard to make the OP see what is really happening, I salute you. You have the patience of a saint.

After being in the NHS since 1986, my patience with people who refuse to listen to the truth has ceased.

We know the truth, we live it with every gruelling shift. For a multitude of reasons the junior doctors deserve the payrise the strikes are wholly justifiable. End off.

Someone whom millions of people agree with.

For a multitude of reasons the junior doctors deserve the payrise the strikes are wholly justifiable. End of