Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

But your son is not highly qualified medic. Does he go to crash and trauma calls? Is he first on the scene when someone has a cardiac arrest? Could any of his work decisions cause harm or death to patients? Could he go to prison for making a mistake?

Does he work 12 hour days? Weekends? Nights?

Ridiculous reply OP.

@Schlappe does he gave to pay £000s to take compulsory exams. Does he pay for indemnity insurance. Does he have to move every 4-6 months in order to do his job. Does he have to pay to park at work. Come back to me when he does.

Yes, really!!
Banking has a couple of other fail-safe mechanisms in place that will not allow a repeat of that fiasco

Don't forget bankers are private and we are talking about NHS doctors.

😇

So OP thinks that people in the private sector should be given bags of money to keep them working in the UK, but people in the public sector should have their pay eroded and be grateful. Meanwhile who has greater skills and brings more value to the society we live in? There is a right answer. It doesn't begin with B.

You really are going to have to up your game.

The banking industry & hence the bankers themselves were bailed out by the tax payer, despite as you say, they were private businesses.

What other safe guards, stress tests? worked well more recently, not.

FC all tend to be driven by different things, the yet "unknowns"

Health is, arguably more important to us all than retail banking, despite that you don't want it to be public funded.

Must be an election year!!!

Wrong! For millions it is a vote winner, just ask the tens of thousands that have missed out on their appointments having waited months when doctors/nurses went on strike and doing so again,

No one in their right mind wants money just thrown at NHS, money which then is squandered via poor practices.

On the whole, the doctors are not to blame for the wasted money but those that manage the funding and the running of our NHS. Until that is addressed, we will retain the massive waiting lists

I'm sure you've all seen th staggering figures for the procurement of items/services at awfully uncompetitive prices and outdated processes.

You're not Liz Truss are you?

""Health is, arguably more important to us all than retail banking, despite that you don't want it to be public funded.""

You've seriously confused my posts with someone elses on this thread or from another forum. Yes, please post a link to where I said that as I have not!

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator Wrong. Ask many thousands who have had missed appointments and they fully support the doctors striking. Because they are the very ones who see the underfunding first hand. Do try harder Tory boy.

@DdyDaisyDaresYou definitely went to the same school that never taught critical thinking.

@thedankness Or why a provisionally registered year one pharmacist earns more than a provisionally registered year one doctor?

I can answer this 🙋🏻‍♀️ an FY1 (or provisionally registered doctor) isn't fully registered, and works under direction of a consultant (as indeed do all junior doctors). What you're calling a provisionally registered pharmacist is actually a fully registered pharmacist (band 6), who is an independent practitioner responsible for all their own decisions. Within the next couple of years a newly qualified pharmacist will be an independent prescriber.

Doctors salaries also increase on a more rapid trajectory than pharmacists'.

@kintra with all due respect, in reality that's all bollocks. F1s prescribe independently (consultant signs off when has time), and when you say 'supervised' it means someone is at the end of a phone if they need anything. In reality they just do the job, and are often the first one at a crash call on night shifts. For £15.33 an hour.

I'm speaking legally. If an FY1 fucks up, they have legal recourse to blame their consultant. If an independent practitioner fucks up, on their own head be it.

And it didn't seem very respectful, FYI

If thats correct, then why are you against paying Doctors a salary commensurate with their skill and responsibilities?

Whatever your views on the merits or otherwise of their dispute, the fact remains, AHPs are leaving the NHS and the only way we can keep pace with this loss is to take AHPs from across the world, almost all from the developing world (hardly moral is it?)

Meanwhile our AHPs are going to NZ, Aus, US and Canada.

Because of Brexit, we no longer attract AHPs and dentists in particular to the uk.

Why are you so intent on seeing UK trained and qualified staff leave?

@kintra apologies. Was a bit rude. But I get so fed up being told F1s are supervised all the time. When in reality they are thrown straight in and expected to get on with it. Yes, consultant would be in trouble, but so would the F1. GMC are not a kind organisation.
2am Xmas day by DD was the only doctor at a crash call. Her, and a v lovely and thankfully v senior nurse. Patient survived, but there was no supervision.

Wrong and I stand by my previous post.
Let the docs go on strike again then ask someone on this site how they feel having waited moneths to get an appointment only to be delayed yet again because of strikes.

The last lot of strikes by the docs earlier this year and late last year, two friends of the family, one for an urgent eye appointment had their appt cancelled and the other did not declare what the appt was for - they were not only disgusted but devastated.

I didn't say 'under supervision' though, I said under direction. Look, just because you gave birth to a HCP doesn't mean you have the first clue what it's really like. With respect.

A newly qualified pharmacist after a four year degree earns £35,392 (Band 6 Afc)

Or why a provisionally registered year one pharmacist earns more than a provisionally registered year one doctor?

@thedankness you contradict yourself with these two posts and are incorrect. A pharmacist straight out of university who is ‘provisionally’ registered starts at band 5 if they secure a post in hospital. Community posts pay far less.

A fully qualified pharmacists who has completed the 4 year degree PLUS a training year and associated exams moves to B6. Seniority can be compared to F2 and as posted above, they are accountable for all their decisions

Yes, that is "Correct" I did not say that. No "ifs" bout it.
Once you accpet that, if I have time, see your post I will respsond

No one wants waiting lists not even the clowns in number 10, but we have them and number 10 knows throwing money at it is no good. Better processes/etc are required as I've said many times

As they say, health is wealth and never a true word has been said

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator with all those doctors in the family I'd have thought they could have asked one of them.

There have been several patients on here, including one being treated for cancer, who all support the strikes. The waiting list was over 7 million when strike action started, and has actually gone down a bit now. Weird how strikes don't see to have done as you say. Why ? Because doctors are doing endless extra shifts to help patients. But many, many won't be here next year unless FPR is sorted. Out of 350 students at one Uni last year, 349 had investigated an exit plan.

Let the docs go on strike again then ask someone on this site how they feel having waited months to get an appointment only to be delayed yet again because of strikes

You can ask me, i had an outpatients appoint cancelled during the last strike, i'm still waiting for a new appoint, its a PIA or in my case a Pain in the Knee.

But i'd rather take short term "pain" now than see the NHS completely disappear.

My FiL has had two eye infirmary routine injections cancelled, he supports the strikes, ex Navy, always voted Tory but wont at the next GE.

I'll do it again as this is OP. Sunak and Vicky lover so nothing you can say. They are right, every single other person on this thread are wrong.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator you can keep baying 'wrong!' as much as you like, it doesn't make you right.

Apologies, a pre-reg pharmacist starts on band 5, making that question redundant. Personally I would not say seniority is comparable to F2.