Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

When is the 5 days strike by consultants?

And so are they

@Notonthestairs actually we do have enough doctors. We don't have enough jobs for them all. GPs being replaced with PAs and being made redundant. Doctors fighting for training contracts as not enough so only half getting them. It's about so much more than pay.

And after so many stupid badly informed posts I'm more sure this is Vicky. The wally who says go to A&E if your tooth hurts. Doctors are legally prevented from doing dentistry (unless maofacial- not sure they do fillings).

Here are some salaries for reference in the NHS in England:

A newly qualified doctor after a five year degree earns £32,398
A newly qualified pharmacist after a four year degree earns £35,392 (Band 6 Afc)
A newly qualified nurse after a three year degree earns £28,407 (Band 5)
A newly qualified physician's associate after a two year diploma earns £43,742 (Band 7)
A newly qualified dentist after a five year degree earns £36,288

These are the salaries for a 37.5/40hr week with no supplements for unsocial hours. It's freely available information online.

The length of training matters not only because it signifies a higher level of qualification, but also greater student debt and the opportunity cost of not earning.

Is it better to be contracted for 48 hours at a base rate of pay with the same annual leave allowance as someone on 40 hours who has more availability to pick up extra shifts at double/triple pay, but isn't guaranteed?

Would anyone like to answer why a physician's associate with a two year diploma in medical training vs a qualified doctor with a 5 year medical degree is employed to carry out the same job for over £11,000 more? N.B. The physician's associate does not have the responsibility or competence to prescribe medication or request x-rays/CT scans. Doctors are also barred from applying to these jobs.

Or why a provisionally registered year one pharmacist earns more than a provisionally registered year one doctor? Or a foundation doctor less than a foundation dentist?

I don't mean this to be divisive but more to highlight people don't understand the context of doctor salaries and why they are striking for more.

Couldn't agree more.

It's disgusting what some folks expect of others that they would never put up with themselves.

Everyone should have the right to strike.

What is this, Victorian times where people were treated no better than a commodity.

Hopefully OP finds this helpful. Not mine, from Twitter. But thought pictures might help the hard of understanding what FPR means.

Not just medical staff, its across all public services, education and the NHS especially so.

The reports into maternity and SENDs provision are truly shocking, yet the same old posters keep banging on about Labour and Does Starmer know what a woman is.

Very transparent what this is all about.

So what?

Oh really?

The bailout of the banks in 2008/09 and the huge amount of tax payers money that kept these companies afloat must have passed you by.

These bonuses they will now get are as a direct result of public funds being used to keep them all in business.

You do know why bonuses were capped in the first place? (and still are in the EU) the conditions for another financial crisis are still alive and kicking.

Thing is, this thread should tell Tory Central that removing the right to strike isn't a vote winner.

And the polls still aren't moving.

Please support our doctors' strike to avoid more of the following. NHS is on itts knees. The doctors ate taking a stand for us all https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/10/nottingham-inquiry-launched-into-death-of-woman-found-unconscious-in-ae

Thank you 💜

Further to the earlier message.... please consider supporting The Guardian, even at £1 a month. All other major newspapers - The Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Sun, The Daily Mirror and The Times are owned by rich men determined to keep their mansions and yachts and access to exclusive clubs. The Guardian is the only major newspaper that is funded by subscriptions of ordinary people. We need more investigative journalism they carry out

Agreed. They are literally saving lives for much of the 40 hours and trained for years to provide the care that they do often in challenging if not intolerable conditions.
A teacher getting £28k isn't bad at all if a doctor only earns £32 in comparison . Disparity is awful in education too , teachers get paid much more than the teaching assistants who ironically are probably needed more than than the teachers but I digress... That's a whole different issue... Doctors are life Savers.

I wonder OP if I put theis in a very 'tory' way you will understand. This is basic supply and demand. NHS struggling not enough staff/ Drs and can't recruit, in private industry the response to this is normally increase pay and improve working conditions to make the role more attractive. This is what NHS staff are telling you. We have been told for years to work the NHS like a buisness , now we are.

.

Edit, meant to reply to the post one above...

Shit, you're right. That's also been slashed since the public sector pay restraint and austerity.

I'm now going to have to ask for a 60% pay rise to offset the loss of my final salary pension scheme, doubking of contributions, and AA / LTA that haven't risen with inflation

It’s more complex than that. Blair gave the GPs a massive pay increase and they could then afford to go part time, so we end up with a GP shortage as a result of paying them more.

For the amount of training and education, and the level of importance of the decision making, that's not such a massive salary these days. Consultants are leaving in droves, as are junior doctors - if there are no strikes, there will be progressively fewer and fewer NHS staff. How is that so difficult to understand?

Consultants in other countries earn 2-3 times what they earn in the UK.

Strikes in Scotland were sorted. I think it was 14% this year with a commitment to reduce the real terms pay loss over a period of 3-5 years. Sunak could have offered the same.

With such a complete lack of understanding of how primary care is funded, I'm not sure I've got the energy to unpick the multiple ways in which this is nonsense.

If some GPs didn't have the option of working part-time many of them would have left so the GP shortage would have been even worse. There is an enormous amount of work that they need to carry out beyond seeing patients face to face.

This. Where is a political will, there is a way

Watch for the next Budget, it's coming in spring. Tories are going to cut the inheritance tax. Even though only 4% (that's right 4%) of the population pay ANY inheritance tax. You really don't need anything else to know where their are priorities are