Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

The Tories will argue that bankers need uncapped bonuses of unimaginable amounts of money because otherwise we risk losing them while at the same time arguing that it's reasonable to cut the wages of highly skilled medical staff.

I think there's something odder than that going on here. The incoherent scattergun arguments, the weird use of language, the 'respected Jeremy Hunt' bit.

I don't think this is a good faith thread, but I'm not convinced that it's electioneering either.

Doctors should factor in their over generous pension

"Over-generous" gives you away, mate.

Doesn’t it just?

Only if politicians do too when they decide on their pay rises.

From what I've read here (probably not the whole story and I think I've misread). For a 40 hour week they get paid £32k. that isn't too bad. And for weekly hours they work above 40. They get paid £15 for each hour above the 40? So overall per year they make more than £32k due to the paid overtime?

They make more than my DS. He gets £28k in his private sector 9-5 job. (I used to think they got paid just under £30k overall AND had the 70+ weeks).

Aren’t MPs’ pensions non contributory?

That OP is straight out of the comments section of the Daily Mail. 😂 It isn’t an intelligently articulated case.

I support our medical staff, including their right to strike.

@Schlappe what they're paid is only a tiny part of the story. What matters is the massive erosion of their pay due to endless below inflation pay rises. While the private sector has also had it hard, it hasn't had its pay held back below inflation for the whole 14 years.

For a 40 hour week they get paid £32k. that isn't too bad.

Actually, that's pretty shit given the qualifications and training.

A bit of education re "bankers bonuses and NHS docs/staff"

One is privately funded and the other by us the taxpayers.

Did your DH study for 6 years, accumulating a debt of over £100k? Do people die if he makes a mistake?

What difference does that make to the logic of whether people leave without appropriate pay?

Thank you
As I said before, no one is able to say why the 5 day strike by senior docs, ie consultants will help their patients.

Most senior docs after a couple of years get over 100k in basic pay, so you add allowances and many work for the private sector as well. Starting pay , the basic is 93k plus allowances.

I say good luck to them but going on strike for for more pay as that is what it is is definitely not helping their patients, nor the taxpayers

I am NHS midwife. We do have generous pensions (to which we contribute). The trouble is we don't live long enough to enjoy them. The job of a doctor, nurse or a midwife is stressful in the best of times. These is plenty of evidence stress shortens the life expectancy

The below inflation part rises reported by the doctors union are only part of the story. They talk about the pay around 2008, saying they should be paid at this level. It takes quite a bit of digging around, but in 2008 doctors were paid more in real terms than at any other time, following a long period of above inflation pay rises. Right now doctors are paid more than in 1990.

The reporting on the doctors pay seems to have been led by the unions and there has been a strange reluctance by the media to check the context of their claims.

Thank you

I was in a job that made me unhappy, I tried to sort it out but it was not for me. So I left.

Oh dear. At it again. No senior doctor earns £100,000. Consultants do, but this strike is not by them. No doctor striking earns more than £70,000.

And if you think £32,000 is good enough after 5-6 years hard study, £100,000 of debt and having peoples lives in your takes, then that's your choice. But other countries don't think that and pay much much more. Our doctors are valuable and want to stay here. But they're not mugs.

Oh and the pension is not that great anymore. Employee contribution is 9.8% so not exactly free. And as retirement age looks like being 71 not sure most will even get it.

"I was in a job that made me unhappy, I tried to sort it out but it was not for me. So I left."

😂😂😂😂😂 and there lies the whole point. Doctors if you're unhappy, leave. So they did. And the NHS was no more.

Same has happened with teaching. Told by so many people, don't like it then leave. And a massive amount of my colleagues have. We have to recruit from abroad now, and even that's becoming impossible.

Tory HQ busy I think. But not sure they've reckoned on the anger this time.

You are not posting in good faith (alternatively you are not bothering to check your facts despite calling yourself a Distinguished Social Commentator). It's not the Consultants who are going on strike at the end of the month. It's junior doctors - Senior House Officers, Registrars, Senior Registrars. The bulk of NHS doctors workforce. The Consultants are just a small tip at the dop and they get there after 25+ years of training, exams and family sacrifices (25+ years include medical school). They don't get to over 100k in salary after a a couple of years as per your post. This is very misleading

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/09/junior-doctors-in-england-to-strike-again-after-pay-talks-break-down

And they'll keep on doing it until darling Vicky listens. 30% FPR can be done over several years. But not doing it will cost us the NHS. Now wonder if that's the plan ? All those MPs with shares in private medical care companies.

The way some people think they own doctors and other healthcare professionals is absolutely disgusting.

Choose a caring profession and apparently that means, work yourself to the bone, get paid in claps, take unending shit, entitlement and aggression from rude patients and now lose any rights to complain and take action against poor treatment and pay that in no way reflects the level of responsibility or stress that comes with the job, in unsafe understaffed conditions. Because we all should have known it would be like this 🙄.

Meanwhile, if a patient feels denied their 'rights' to every ounce of the doctor's time, attention, compassion and blood, sweat and tears, can't see them exactly when they want to, don't get the exact treatment or outcome they want or don't agree with their professional, highly-educated opinion, there is hell to pay.

Conclusion, only parents' rights matter, healthcare professionals should be worked to the ground no matter how awful things are, treated inhumanely because "THEY CHOSE THIS" and have no avenues of recourse to return on their investment. Gotcha.

We don't have enough doctors.
We are losing the ones we have.
Shortages impact the health and therefore productivity of the nation.
We won't be able to rely on staff from overseas to act as a buffer to poor workforce planning if they are understandably more attracted to better terms and conditions elsewhere.
Improving pay and conditions will go some way to counteract all of those issues.

Suggesting more medical staff should leave the service is both foolish & counterproductive to our future.