Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator you have a very funny way of “thanking” NHS staff is all I will say!

If they lose the right to strike they should be suitably rewarded for accepting that clause, else you will have nobody bothering to train in medicine for the crap pay, crap work conditions and no right to strike for change. Absolutely stupid idea. YABU.

"stupid idea" "no one bothering to train.."

Please let's get real. A precedence has already been set re no strikes contract, look at our police force. Are you telling me no one is joining the police force or armed services? The same is often said about police pay as per your post but please do let me know if we are not getting a daily influx of new staff in the police and armed forces.

Left to me, I paid all NHS staff , police, armed services and other important working groups a million pounds a week but it does not work like that as we live in the real world

Your post is fundamentally flawed for the reason I have posted above.

How would you reduce waiting lists and why is the government not doing this as obsv they want to win the next election

I work with these striking doctors (though not a doctor). They always cover urgent services, and if we think that something urgently needs their attention, they've made it clear we can talk to them.

We're fully behind them, they've been totally shafted over recent years, and if they're not striking then they'll be handing in their notice permanently, which is worse!

I'm not even going to go into what I think of the scapegoating of hospital staff by the government for their own failings and mismanagement.

You have already had the answer around reducing waiting lists, you just don't want to hear it. It's this:

1. Short term, fund catchup procedures in the private sector.
2. Pay doctors and nurses properly, I.e. not less than they were getting in 2010.
3. Invest in eradicating poverty to improve the general health of the population.

Alongside this, fully restore bursaries for nurses and scrap their tuition fees, reform student finance and fund NHS trusts so that they can afford safe staffing, because this will reduce the strain on staff and improve retention.

Remove the need to strike, it's as simple as that. The Tories keep going on about 'back to square one' - well, I remember 2010. Things were not perfect, but they were infinitely better than they are now.

Everyone should have the right to strike, including police and military, because it is the only way of holding the government to account. You say you're not a Conservative - your seeking the race to the bottom doesn't suggest this is the case.

Thank you
@pointythings

I've declared already re mandatory contracts and bursaries. and no strike agreements

Point one is fundamentally flawed, IE people are already waiting to see private health care needs as in certain areas/sectors waiting lists but nowhere near as long as NHS. Often the same docs/consultants also work in the NHS.

I recommend we send people to Norway/Finland and a couple of their countries within a couple of hours' flight from the uk for HC needs, EG diagnosis test, ops - this option is offered and people can decide if to go there or stay and there will be many cant travels but many that could.

We least hospital ships and I believe one or two have state-of-the-art scanning machines etc.

Health education is important and this must be included more so in our schools as well as financial responsibility and HC responsibility

NB: Ensure there is a decent stand-by list of 2/4 hours where appoints have been cancelled for one reason or another and stand-by people can utilise which otherwise would have been a wasted appointment

In our major cities, about 4 of them, have central units that only scan people a bit like a production line that is fully supported by newly trained staff that can easily ID urgent needs and progress them

We need to reduce budget on our armed services and redirect it toward the NHS as many billions are wasted a year, we don't need two carriers and we dont need to increase our front-line fighter jets by 200% as recently talked about.

Reduced the number of tanks as in modern warfare is not great.

Half the number of MP's and abo,lish the Lords and give the money to NHS.

Get more people back into work as there are a few that can work and wont work.

Sell the BBC and channel 4 and use that money towards the NHS units as I stated and their support.

Raise VAT on every item that costs more than 500 pounds RRP to 30% and use the money towards NHS and education re better health for all. (Most washing machines, driers, fridges, tv's, sofas, beds, clothing, food, and eating out cost m a lot less than 500. A bit like the new tax that was introduced many years ago on cars costing RRP 40k plus

I guess that went hand in hand with a commitment to no change teems and conditions so that the contract Dr's interested into never changed. That would need to include wages keeping track with inflation, not increasing the pension age, no forced change of job role, not suddenly making staff pay to park at their work place. For the older Dr's, that would be a massive bill for the NHS.

The police are not allowed to strike, yet I don't see how that has benefited the service whatsoever? Everyone knows the police are so stretched that many crimes go uninvestigated. Part of the problem with the misogyny and sex offenders in the police is because they are so understaffed they can't be highly selective for the best applicants. The police force isn't competitive or attractive enough.

@DistinguishedSocialCommenator Your suggestions all include lots more money and investment in the NHS, which is what you said you were opposed to upthread.

Customers can strike too - ask Rosa Parkes. Although I can imagine some posters here happily telling her she wasted her time.

And voters can "strike". In some cases by not voting ever for a certain party ever.

(Not voting at all is obviously signalling you are happy to be arse-fucked and don't care what implement is used)

Yes I agree they shouldn't be allowed to strike I say this, as somebody who works in healthcare for pittiful pay and hours but we don't strike as its human beings.

No,

But if they do, it should be only with a legal agreement that all public sector workers receive the higher of either the % benefits increase, the % min wage increase or the % mp wage increase each year.

This would immediately stop the devaluation of their roles and guarantee at least the same chunk as the people agreeing the pay rises. Job done.

The staffing levels are dangerous already, you must understand this the qualified people with a registration are at risk and so are the patients. Public are moaning about the state of the NHS... well striking is a start. The non registration staff are already so short staffed even ward clarks are being pulled to sit with patients it isn't fair on them and it is sheer poor practise.

I can't abide by this sour grapes attitude "I don't get so nobody else should either".

Please let's get real. A precedence has already been set re no strikes contract, look at our police force. Are you telling me no one is joining the police force or armed services? The same is often said about police pay as per your post but please do let me know if we are not getting a daily influx of new staff in the police and armed forces

The Govt is really struggling with Police and Armed forces, the Army in particular is losing more leaving than joining.

Plus of course, you don't need 7 to 10 years of training to be a Soldier or a Police Officer, neither is there an international shortage of either but there is of AHPs, hence so many leave for the private sector and abroad.

Yours is a stupid idea because you have a top down view of managing staff & AHPs striking is a symptom of government failure on the NHS, rather than the cause.
Treat staff with respect and they tend not to go on strike.

I know all too well about low staffing levels and been put at risk but I have to get on with it nobody speaks for us

You ve crappy pay n conditions because you don't strike, the management/govt know this, so pay you peanuts.
Patient care responsibility works both ways.

Maybe join a union, if you work in the NHS, there will be one.

Unfortunately it's private care the forgotten sector

Social care is a national disgrace, a min wage job yet requiring, skill, compassion and is very hard work.

Been like it for years will never change

I work with challenging behaviour by myself due to funding. I can get kicked scratched etc but can't strike.

Won't change unless you fight back. What are you martyring yourself for? Your employer doesn't care about you, they'll replace you in a heartbeat. Your patients/clients may care but they're not going to fight for you. Management relies on your empathy to exploit you and undervalue care work. They rely on your apathy. It isn't right but that's capitalism. Don't stop others fighting for what they're worth because you are too unwilling.

We have tried everything nothing changes.
I need the money to pay my bills as well so I'm not sure what to do.
The clients don't understand as they have learning difficulties as well.

@Tevion1213 your work is undervalued and tough in the extreme.

That is still not a valid reason to say 'well, I can't have this, therefore nobody else should get it either'. Your attitude is what employers rely on to divide and rule.

You could probably earn more for less stress in Aldi or Lidl. You have that choice. So don't tear others down because you resent what they have.

Are you telling me no one is joining the police force or armed services?

No, Sir Mark Rowley, boss of the Met is saying so.

The same is often said about police pay as per your post but please do let me know if we are not getting a daily influx of new staff in the police and armed forces.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/met-police-losing-more-officers-recruiting-commissioner-sir-mark-rowley/

More Doctors strikes anounced 24th to 28th Feb