Doctors right to strike, should it be removed?

[DistinguishedSocialCommenator]

Hello
Several people within our families are doctors. Most started out wanting to care for people, but as time goes on, the reality of money, and spending comes into play for some.

PM Rishi Sunak in a tv interview partly balmed doctors strikes for failing to bring down hospital waiting lists. I rarely agree with a politician but in this case, I know he is right. EG, myself, my OH, one of our children and grandchildren have had their appointments cancelled because of strike impacts. Our children and grandchildren do have private healthcare but those do not cover pre-existing or you end up on the NHS with chorionic conditions.

Our police officers and armed forces personnel are not allowed to strike

AIBU to expect a no-strike agreement for doctors and possibly nurses. If agreed, give them 9 months' notice about no-strike agreements. I honestly believe hardly anyone would leave and those leaving would have possibly left the NHS anyway as some do and go to another country just like we get doctors from abroad. Their pay claims could be easily managed in the same way police/armed forces pay rises are managed as well of those MP's.

Failing to bring down hospital w/l lies with the present government and the growing of these waiting lists, the doctor's strikes have certainly made things a lot worse. We are regularly hearing on our news media about growing waiting lists and people waiting for urgent treatments and the waiting times in A&E departments etc

AIBU to feel that doctors should be made to sign a no-strike agreement with a few month's notice to have the no-strike agreement in place before next winter? Also, have a pay body set up like the ones our MP's enjoy.

I thought it might be pertinent to discussion https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/08/i-lost-my-baby-and-apologised-to-the-midwife-for-taking-up-her-time-heres-why

@Kosenrufugirl sadly I fear OP is not open to listening to facts and reason. She has been provided with so much data and has not acknowledged one iota of it. This is what we're up against.

As you will know you can't " go locum" until you have completed your foundation training. A career break is just that, you remain employed, all that would happen with Drs who don't work for the NHS is that they would get their student loans taken "at source" by HMRC like everyone does now if you are not earning or earning very little you don't pay. It really isn't that complicated.

@Kosenrufugirl Thank you for that article. The OP thinks that browbeating staff into indentured servitude is a way to improve the service but the opposite is true: look after the staff, train them well, and they will look after the patients. I believe Atul Gawande said that the focus of hospital management should be on improving the ability of staff to do their jobs well - this is how you improve patient care.

Unhappy staff and strikes go hand-in-hand with an under-resourced and poorly managed system. They are a consequence not the cause of a poor service for patients. You need to address the root cause. Unfortunately I think the problems with the NHS are fundamental as the demands are growing year on year. All the politicians suggest is just sticking plasters.

The NHS has a very generous sickness policy. That doctor would be signed off with stress on full pay.

@blossomtoes that would depend on their length of service and their sickness absence over the preceding 12 months, but that isn't the point, is it? Because that doctor's work would still need to be done, or their clinics/surgeries cancelled. You can't run a service permanently at full stretch. It breaks people. That's what is happening now.

I think everyone should have the right to strike no matter their profession, if conditions get so bad in a workplace or sector changes must be made to stop the need for strikes, in the case of public sector workers the onus must be on the government to make such conditions better.

To debate opinions about allowing or not allowing strikes distracts the focus from the heart of the matter which is poor funding allocation and mis-management

The facts are simple, it is "mainly" mismanagement of the taxpayer's money and this is why I don't want just more of our money thrown at it

It is awful and patients are waiting longer and longer and not just the rich now but possibly millions with health care ins going via private health care and tens of thousands of ordinary people with little savings choosing to go private up to a few thousand pounds and in turn you are getting waiting times to be seen, diagnosed privately as many of the same docs work for the NHS as well.

Our children have private health care but when you take this out, as many are aware, it does not cover pre-existing conditions but some are if there has been no flare-ups, not taking meds and it has been an x number of years - depends on the insurance provider.

The facts are simple indeed, you resent your tax money going to the NHS because you pay for private.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-35000-patients-wait-for-12-hours-on-hospital-trolleys-every-month-in-england

Good luck with your private health insurance@DistinguishedSocialCommenator when you need A&E care or you get beyond the diagnostics phase to a chronic condition that's not covered.

And with regard to your username, it is about as accurate a description of your observations as it is to be calling Jeremy Hunt respected.

The facts are simple, it is "mainly" mismanagement of the taxpayer's money and this is why I don't want just more of our money thrown at it

On what basis do you say the main issue is mismanagement? how do you know this?

As far as i can tell, based on evidence from the Kings fund, the issues with the NHS are lack of well maintained estate, lack of equipment and lack of staff.

In their analysis, the NHS compares well on efficiency.

Your ans to all of this is no strike clauses, if you believe the issue is bad management, why would you go after the workforce for a solution? thats illogical, unless you want to see the NHS gone, which i suspect you do.

Have your family members actually told you they are a doctor for the money? The real money is at consultant level. Before all this it's lots of studying, long hours and the best years have of their lives have gone!

"Withdrawing your labour" is called resigning...you shouldn't have a legal right to sign a contract that says you'll do X and then not do it. That's called breaking a contract.

You absolutely should be disciplined/ potentially lose job if you fail to show up for work (whether you're in bed, in a spa, or on the pavements with a banner).

Have never understood striking (even when I have fully agreed with the workers in the disputes)

Is it just me, or are there loads of threads at the moment that are probably being started by Tory HQ…

Have never understood striking

Just a few things strikes have achieved

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/what-have-strikes-ever-achieved-10389910.html

I understand they're effective, I was more talking about the morals & philosophy behind it x

Everyone should be allowed to strike. But the employer should be allowed to fire you and replace you.

Ha ha

So lets take the recent strikes.. Train drivers, Nurses, Physio's, Consultants, Junior Docs.

Good luck finding all of them down at your local job centre.

Do people actually think before posting.

Not just you.

The morals and philosophy behind it is to improve people's lives, working conditions etc

I think everyone should be allowed to strike. Unless you have worked in every single job industry I think you aren't entitled to start demanding a person shouldn't strike when you have no idea what it's like to even work in that sector.

I've never heard of a strike in the corporate sector though? Like you know people who have office jobs etc?

If you want to know how bad recruitment is, I'm about to do interviews for a non training junior doctor post. There were 300 applicants, 20 met the absolute bare minimum standard of being able to speak English and have a medical degree, 10met the essential criteria on the job spec and none scored more than 50% on the role specific desirable criteria.

1 applicant is currently working in KFC.

That's how bad things are, and that's why we can't get through waiting lists or employ people.

So that's your reason? Sour grapes.

Like you know people who have the choice to leave and work for another employer who does recognise their worth, even if their current one doesn't. The NHS is a monopoly. Surely the difference is obvious.