To wholeheartedly agree with Brianna Ghey’s mother

[Moonpig82]

I spotted this article this morning. We personally do not allow Tik Tok, Insta, Facebook, Snapchat. For our eldest who has just got a phone when starting Year 7. However we have succumbed to whatsapp.

What are people’s thoughts? How can we ‘police’ our children’s phones?

Or AIBU and there is no policing for social media? I know my Year 7 child’s friends do have these apps. Not all of them though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68193103

Tik tok don’t want to . They don’t care .

The apps are not the problem. Bullying is. We need to raise our children to do better. Don't bully, call it out when you see it and get better support from the police and the schools.

Schools do. We had endless assemblies and info sent to parents about social media,age limits, safe usage etc.

The issue is tricky in two ways.

One, many schools encourage children to use educational apps (including in the form of rewards,certificates etc) so they need some form of device. Covid made it all 100 times worse as so much of it was online,and some things stayed online. It was a lot easier and cheaper to have a phone or tablet(especially if there were old ones knocking about in the house) , than getting a dedicated laptop for it, or sharing.

Two, and the real issue here , they can't make parents(or their children) comply.

We had a really serious issue with phones for one class. Parents coming in complaining daily , not one of them took the phone away, or at least deleted the blooming apps or set some restrictions.Not one of them realised that even if their child was the victim, they as parents were part of the problem. Any suggestions of limiting access was met with anger,aggression and accusations we don't care, we can't be bothered and we're not safeguarding their children.

I agree with Brianna’s mother but just banning under 16s or, as some suggest under 18s, from having a smart phone won’t be enough. I would firstly ban phones and tablets for anyone under age of 7. Use of iPads etc removed from ks1 curriculum, devices which allow tablets to be attached to cots/pushchairs banned, young children if they are using them indoors they would no doubt say at school/nursery this would become a safeguarding issue just like if they reported watching inappropriate tv etc. Secondly as Children/teenagers have access to tablets, laptops etc the problem would continue just not on a phone. The security around social media apps need to be tighter. Downloading and using them under 18 against the law, huge media/advertising campaigns saying the reasons, tighter controls on downloading eg credit card verification, passport, national insurance number etc. Monitoring of social media (this is where ai could be useful) and harmful content reported, deleted and traced back to who is responsible. As humans we generally follow social norms and don’t want to break the law therefore if the above occurred it would become common place in society and followed just like any other law.

It’s pretty much impossible to get credit if you’re under 18, as passport verification etc is required. I think we should apply the same rigorous controls to certain apps, particularly Snapchat. Snapchat is the app of choice for drug dealers and paedophiles to groom children.
The internet and smartphones generally, I think this is already a problem too big, but where we know certain apps carry a massive risk where strangers can offer children easy opportunities to purchase drugs and vapes, it isn’t good enough to say there’s nothing we can do. There must be some things we can do.

Im not sure I can answer your question

I know she had kill lists, past and present. I dont believe Brianna was killed for being trans so not sure of your point there and Im not 'anti trans' (whatever that is in this context) so I cant answer you

I work in a secondary school with a no mobile policy, we also require all phones to have parental controls on. The number of parents who object to this is insane. Why wouldn't you want your kid to be protected?

It's too late in my opinion, when toddlers have ipad holders on their push chairs, how do you change this ingrained behaviour.

"Not possible" my arse.

@Cazpar

Agreed!

But weren't these teenagers on the dark web etc. That isn't accessible through apps or whatever....these teenagers seem incredibly troubled - this is such extreme behaviour.. therefore it's a lot more than the Internet that caused their behaviour. Way more at play here.

In an ideal world children wouldn’t be on social media but in reality many parents wouldn’t abide by a ban and it wouldn’t be possible technically unless the government wanted to spy on people’s phones like in China. I’m not even sure how to check what my child saw on the Dark Web which is presumably where the extreme content is posted.
When a parent finds something troubling on their kid’s phone, what are the realistic chances of getting help ? I don’t see CAMHS, the health service or social services rushing with therapy and solutions tbh. I’ve read posts on here where poster’s children do dangerous things like send naked selfies and there’s no proper help that can fix that problem.
Plus there’s a major problem that many schools use apps for homework and learning meaning kids need a smart phone or other device.

I agree. My 9 year old has been nagging for a console for ages. I’ve held out so far. Not sure when I’ll get him one but it’s nowhere on the horizon yet….

This is the same at my school too. The amount of parents who complain about our “no phones” policy is surprising. I’ve had many parents tell me that their children spend hours on their devices after school and they either don’t see this as an issue (as the children are “socialising with friends”) or do it for a quiet life as limiting devices at this stage causes huge rows with their DCs.

It's entirely possible to police their phones. "If you want a phone before you're 16 and are expecting me to pay for it I want you to hand it for inspection when asked/weekly/fortnightly/monthly" it's as simple as that.

I notice the Jewish school boys who get on my bus dont have smart phones but old school phones so it can be done. And for them everyone is the same so I suppose it makes it easier.

Their social media algorithms directed them to the darker side of the internet

Dd1 got WhatsApp in year 7 (closely monitored with the no deleting messages rule), in year 10 she got insta after a long conversation, year 11 she’s got Snapchat. Dtds are year 8 and got Snapchat at the same time - dtd2 came to me with a speech prepared about how she’d use Snapchat and the mitigations she’d put in place to protect her. It’s on trial.

I’ve spoken openly about my concerns. my colleague’s daughter had 2 dc commit suicide due to Snapchat bullying 2 months apart. I hate it but also acknowledge dd was being left out because her friends had another world that she wasn’t part of. We talk about it a lot and they are open dc ego tell us what’s happening in “phone world”. I check their messages - they know I do. I don’t check dd1 (she’s 16 and has built my trust) but I’ve said that if I was ever worried about her I would check her phone.

parenting with phones is very stressful and I think there’s a balance but it can go very wrong.

I hate bullying but we will never ever be rid of it. Equally there is no harm in tackling it from all angles. We, as women, know men are unsafe yet take measures to protect ourselves in certain environments because their behaviour is sadly inevitable. It's not different to tech and children. Simply saying the problem is bullying is weak and absolving yourself of responsibility.

Their social media algorithms directed them to the darker side of the internet

That's not how it works or what the dark web is. Jesus.

You cannot "check" your kids phones, whatever you may believe, absolutely anything can be hidden by using apps or file managers. I have an app on mine, a photo and message "vault". It looks and works exactly like a regular calculator, until I type in a specific series of numbers, then the app opens. There are literally hundreds of these types of app on the Play Store. So, all those parents who "check" their DC phone are wasting their time.

And "burner" phones are sold for £50 around here, the kids even joke about them they are so common. So all that life 360 and parental software stuff is pointless too. Lots of kids swap "burner deets" and some give their "real" handsets to friends who will hang out where the child is supposed to be, in case their parents have a location app, but the DC is actually somewhere completely different and using their burner.

Kids will ALWAYS find a way around.

If mobiles didn't exist, no iphones, no apps, nothing, and I invented one, with all the current social media and browsers pre installed, they would never allow me to sell it, citing child safety concerns, privacy, stalking potential, access to porn etc.

We have sleepwalked into a mass surveillance society, where "social credit" is now as real as your Experian score. A single 30 second TicTok clip can ruin your business, get you fired, make you unemployable, drive you to suicide.

I'm not sure what the answer is.

Same for tablets/iPads, I don’t give them to my children for an easy life. Like you say, parents need to be held accountable. My sister is autistic and growing up she was without the iPad/tablet as they didn’t exist - this seems to be a common excuse. They need to make these devices without access to internet - only apps for learning/school work. I’m sorry but children should not have their own ipad/tablet if it is to be used without supervision.

Clamping down on the content is certainly one of the better ideas.

But nobody owns or is completely in-charge of the Internet

Completely agree. Of course it's possible if the will is there. At some point age restrictions were introduced for smoking, alcohol, buying knives, guns, sex, marriage, working long hours, compulsory education, driving, car seats..... A smart phone ban for under 18s no different and I have no doubt it will come at some point, the question is when.
Smart phones are probably more detrimental than smoking for children or not using car seats.

There is a utube of Zuckerberg in front of a committee accused of not adhering to an online child safety bill.

You cannot "check" your kids phones, whatever you may believe, absolutely anything can be hidden by using apps or file managers. I have an app on mine, a photo and message "vault". It looks and works exactly like a regular calculator, until I type in a specific series of numbers, then the app opens. There are literally hundreds of these types of app on the Play Store. So, all those parents who "check" their DC phone are wasting their time

youre assuming parents aren't tech savvy and don't know this.

Monitoring their phones isnt about discovering all their dark secrets it's fostering trust and ability to talk to each other. Start the conversation "before I look through your phone do I need to know anything?" Teens like to be sneaky but if your relationship is good they will be able to hide very little from you and the threat alone will be enough for a confession.

Exact same experience.