To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

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If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

Not read whole thread, but surely private schools don't have to pass this cost into parents. They could use their endowments, merge, outsource, use technology, make cuts, change the offer. I.e do the work that every flipping public service has had to do since 2010. Times change and there's no magic money tree as asset strippers and their supporter in government like to tell us.

Exactly as I explained to @StarlingsForever ; median and modal fees are between 12-15k; the mean of £16.7k is dragged up by the relatively tiny number of outliers.

Every news article on the subject features a picture of Eton. Perhaps @Mum1976Mum you might send the Guardian a picture of your school, or one of the other thousand or so in the <15k bracket, and see if it could be the headline for their next coverage?

I'm not the one that said they were going to cause disruption on purpose.

My actual opinion on the matter isn't that VAT should be paid on fee's. But that the easy way for them to claim "charitable status" should be stopped and taxes applied accordingly. My son is very keen on private for 6th form (due to the courses available). having looked our local private schools (London, so quite a few) NONE provide 100% bursary. The 3 nearest us, the maximum bursary, which is means tested, is 20%. 20% off £30k is still unaffordable for the vast majority. Even the cheap school is £23k a year, so still £18k with bursary.

I would like to see private schools offer sensible bursaries for those with SEN, academic high achieving etc. make 10% of the places available with full bursaries. If they want charitable status, they need to work for it, not just do the bare minimum to tick a box.

Charitable status isn’t going to be taken away. Labour backtracked on that as it wasn’t workable.

If, as you say, you’d like more and higher bursaries adding tax to fees isn’t going to help.
Our old school has already announced they will be reducing the % and number of bursaries.
Its exactly the area you are keen on promoting that will be hardest hit.

I said that is what I would like happen. What I think should happen.

I think schools should be forced to offer more than they currently do. Schools that currently offer it is excellent and they won't be hit!

Adding VAT onto fees is likely to reduce the bursary provision available. The best way of increasing bursaries so that more families can access an excellent education is for the state to partly help, for example by providing an allowance of £8k per child; the amount which would be spent if they used the state system.

VAT and charitable status are entirely separate.

I know they are separate. I just said what I think should happen.

There's definitely an opportunity to understand this better. If private schools don't pass it on they make savings; if they make savings it hits headcount which is 70-75pc of spend, leaving us redundant teachers not paying tax, and only a very few will be hired into the state sector for reasons we've covered.

Is it just me or is this thread starting to read like a Mad Hatter's Tea Party?! 😂

Maybe RTFT?

I appreciate it’s what you would like, I didn’t appreciate you were saying not to tax…apologies

However
I get the idea of more SEN places but not sure I understand why more free places should be offered to the academically bright.
Id rather they went to the vulnerable or academically struggling as they will benefit the most…....thats just what I’d like though.

It’s such an ill thought out policy. The glee which some people have at the thought of children and teachers being disrupted is, quite frankly, appalling. I think their reaction speaks volumes about the type of people who are looking forward to this being implemented. It’s a truly spiteful proposal

I support it,, with caveats, just as i'd support a wealth tax and changes in unearned income taxation too.

We need to close the gaps in opportunity and in order to do that, money has to come from somewhere, low and avg income earners cannot afford more taxes, many are struggling and in some cases even uses food banks.

BUT i would like to see Labour publish an impact assessment first, as i would on any new tax.
i personally think the nom dom changes are going to prove very negative, i not really for the idea that money taxed elsewhere, should then be taxed again when bought into the UK.

Reports yesterday in the news all those non dons are packing up and leaving and taking their businesses with them
Heading for Switzerland and Monaco (0% tax😁). And why wouldn’t they.

Its our loss.

Absolutely agree with you we need facts and figures from Labour.

I think my kids are going to be ok, incase you're worried

@justteanbiscuits “My actual opinion on the matter isn't that VAT should be paid on fee's. But that the easy way for them to claim "charitable status" should be stopped and taxes applied accordingly. My son is very keen on private for 6th form (due to the courses available). having looked our local private schools (London, so quite a few) NONE provide 100% bursary. The 3 nearest us, the maximum bursary, which is means tested, is 20%. 20% off £30k is still unaffordable for the vast majority. Even the cheap school is £23k a year, so still £18k with bursary.”

If you live in London there are loads of good selective schools you can access at Sixth Form. Private schools should not be spending their cash on mainly helping a select few children with bursaries, they should be reaching as many local children as possible as widely as possible. That is already starting to change now.

There are loads of selective schools like Kings Maths School and Westminster School does a close partnership with Harris Westminster where you actually get taught by Westminster School teachers for some subjects. Look at places like that.

Because imagine what the very brightest could achieve with private education! For my son, the lure of a much wider range of GCSE's / A-Levels is what makes him want to go private!

What about. Every school has to have 10% of places available on significant bursaries. 2% for scholarship and 8% for those with needs.

I'm not a politician. This is just my own personal musings.

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights/tax/private-client/abolishing-non-dom-status-what-happens-now

There are going to be a hell of a lot more people leaving if you have to pay IHT for 10 years after leaving the UK and being resident here! If they put that through, then bye bye to anyone who has any options to leave. And this was a Tory party.
Also bollocks to that because how is that going to work with other countries in any event. Why is anyone with any real money and a second passport going to pay another 40% tax then they die when they do not have to.

Expecting parents to still find £18k+ a year is not reaching "as many as possible". It's still only reaching those with significant disposable income. There isn't a hope in hell those living in the local council flats could ever dream of having that much money.

And I am talking about schools that wish to keep their charitable status. If they don't want to offer significant bursaries, then they don't need to. But it does mean that the schools out there that are specifically for SEN (we have a excellent one round the corner from us), or those that are truly offering charitable places / heavily reduced for pupils, get the support they need. It stops the two tier issue where you have the £10k a year who share their sports grounds etc but then the £30k+ a year who keep everything very much to themselves.

That’s what grammar schools were for. But Labour managed to get rid of most of those. Again bringing people down. It’s a theme for Labour.

Why is anyone with any real money and a second passport going to pay another 40% tax then they die when they do not have to.

Because not everyone is motivated by greed? Because there are things that some people value more than money? Because there are people who believe in social justice and a fairer distribution of wealth? Because there are some that recognise that they will still leave more than enough for their loved ones even with inheritance tax taken into account?

Of course, there are some who will run away to wherever they can get away with paying the least possible amount of tax, but it's rather sad to assume that all wealthy people are motivated by selfish interests alone.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves - I don’t think it is that - I think plenty of rich people would rather choose the charities etc and where their money goes than just hand it over to Governments. Most are after legacies etc, most have some children. These tend to be people who have millions and millions and can make a real difference with their money. They are not just going to hand it over to a Government where they lived for a few years especially given that Government’s current track record.

Actually in an area with a Grammar school. As I said before, over 60% of boys that go there (It's the boys grammar I looked into for my sons) come from private education. It's common amongst parents here to discuss that they are sending their child private in order to get into the Grammar.

Personally I found the grammar awful. Focus was entirely on academic results (but without the wide range of options private has) and not on making nice, good human beings. I want my kids to be good humans more than I want them to get straight 9's.

Although it’s not just the £10k a year who share facilities it’s many others too.
Our now £47k a year share all sports facilities, teachers, holiday revision lessons, state primary teaching support, theatre and photography labs, special science lessons and evening lectures….free to all. Locals and schools alike.
Obviously the usual subsidised places aswell.

Plus parents fees pay to maintain all the heritage buildings on their grounds.

Splitting hairs I know but I do agree more reduced bursaries would be beneficial, this policy isn’t going to help any of that though. Our old school is already reducing provision to save money.

Also. IF, and that is a massive if, grammars took the students who were the most academically able, rather than the majority being those who's parents could afford thousands of extra tutoring and coaching, then it would be great. But that isn't how it works.

And that's great. Lucky area. And as I keep saying, those that truly already do charitable deeds won't be affected. Which is why I believe this to be a fairer method.

But that isn't all schools. The two, big, well known schools near us don't offer their pitches, labs, pools etc etc out for other youngsters to use. One rents out it's pool and pitches, but at the current market rate. The local non-private schools offer theirs out cheaper, to try and claw some money to support the kids, so that's where clubs and lessons are mostly held.