To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

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If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

We found exactly the same where we are @justteanbiscuits

It’s around 10% from private at my local grammar and that’s a grammar that is often in the top ten state schools in England.

We only have one grammar in quite a wide geographical area. So there is a lot of competition. I know it's lower in Kent where they have a lot more Grammars.

This isn’t Kent and there is a lot of competition to get in. The only other boys grammar school in the county is 25 miles away.

I know this is a bit off topic but for those parents with children at private school would a hybrid model work? This is the case in Norway where the child has funding attached to them and the parents can choose to spend this at a fee paying or non fee paying school.

This means that the fees are much more reasonable £200-600 pcm for "gymnasium" 14-18. There's much more choice in curriculum so IB is available, foreign language schools, all sorts of options are offered.

Another option might be to cap fees like university, and schools with capped fees would benefit from public funding and avoid this vat/ charitable status change.

This is exactly what should happen. Funding should follow the child. So, if you opt for state there is no extra charge. If you choose private, you can offset the state funding element (and there then might be an argument for charging VAT on the extra). I’d happily take £8,000 per child and then pay VAT on fees.

You re unbelievable! no wonder you can afford private!

Not only don't you want to pay VAT on your choices but you now want a state subsidy to offset your school fees.

Expecting the tax payer to make up the shortfall in the state education budget.

I don’t think this is such an unbelievable idea. The parents pay for a state place after all.

So do childless people if they are taxpayers.

I was replying to a previous poster who asked about a hybrid model (some countries do have a system where the state funds private education - including Finland). I can’t see the problem with giving every child the same amount of state funding and giving parents the choice as to how they use that funding. If a child was allocated funding of £8k and then used it for a private school, it’s not costing the state any more than if they used the state sector. Then there might be a justification for adding VAT to school fees.

I’m saying that I’m happy to pay VAT if we got the state funding element. I don’t see the logic in taxing school fees when every child send to private school is actually saving the state £8k a year.

The point is that those families do have children and would cost the state £8k a year if they chose the state sector.

You could make that point for a lot of things. Should we refund everyone who uses private healthcare for what it would cost if they had nhs treatment. Or refund people who didn't have children or need healthcare for what it would cost if they did?

You may not like the idea but it’s a system that works perfectly well in lots of other European countries. Parents can choose between state schools currently. It’s a market. Why not let them choose between the current schools on offer or none of the above schools and take their government issued education voucher elsewhere? Don’t you think it might improve standards in state schools?

Im not sold on this (or VAT or no VAT either), but state school education is currently utterly dire in many many schools and something needs to be done about it.

Some intel on @ThinkingForward and @Schoolrefused suggestion

Seems like the idea is a success in the countries that chose it

Presumably it is not much different in countries which have the system or every school would be private. I bet inequalities and advantages of going to a private schools are nowhere as near as great as in the uk.

That's exactly the point and I am so excited to find something we can agree on.

The state of private schools (overpriced, overly exclusive) is because state schools have a monopoly on compulsory education and price capped taxpayer funding. There's the state, or Bentley. In too much of the country, no opportunity to buy the decent Toyota or VW you actually want. In countries with vouchers and school choice that's what you get.

If we had school choice with vouchers we would have many, many more opportunities to buy private education, part subsidised by the state, at a mid market level.

And ironically, this is what would actually make 50k a year schools untenable. This is what they really fear.

The VAT policy takes us in precisely the opposite direction. More exclusive, and all the damage to the upper but not spectacular earners. And the only group that wins is the tiny proportion that actually wants exclusivity and snobbery.

No we shouldn’t “refund” them, but nor should we penalise them through the tax system for not using the state provision. Adding VAT onto school fees is a penalty for not using the state system.

Hear hear! Everything run by the state is shite because they have the monopoly. Same with GPs and hospitals. If people had funding that followed them then EVERYONE would have a choice of schools. The terrible schools would close down, the great ones would expand. Same with anything medical. This would truly improve everything for everyone! How dare all those idiots at Westminster tell people which GP surgery or school they HAVE to use while they can choose. This is what people should be up in arms about!

Point 1 yes, private healthcare is a double positive externality like education

Point 2 no, there is no positive externality when you are not educating children that don't exist. The role of people without children is to pay for the positive externality (they they benefit from) whether that is delivered via the state or private sector

Even childless people benefit from children being educated…..unless they don’t want an educated doctor when they get ill etc.

Yes this would definitely work for us.

‘So you want all the former music, Latin, MML teachers to teach Maths and Physics in state schools now? What a great plan!’

well, they DO teach languages and music in normal schools and no school is going to take an unqualified maths teacher to teach maths. Well, a state school won’t anyway.
Though DS’s Maths teacher has both a maths degree, and MFL degree so I suppose it’s not unusual.

Very few state schools teach certain languages. Latin and Greek are taught in around 2% of state schools, German in around 35% of state schools.

no school is going to take an unqualified maths teacher to teach maths. Well, a state school won’t anyway.

Academies and free schools (around 80% of state schools) don’t necessarily require QTS.

My cousin hasn’t had a qualified maths teacher in 3years and that’s at an ‘outstanding’ secondary school in Herts.
Its either non maths supply teacher, handouts and stand ins by anyone in the school that’s free.