To think that people who agree with VAT on private school fees but not on university fees, are hypocrites?

[Blanket601]

If Labour add VAT to private school fees, they should also add VAT to university fees. Or no VAT on either. The principle and rule, should be the same.

Why is only private school education being platformed. I think we all know why.

I think you need to take a step back and do
some research. VAT and charitable status are two different things. Many private schools don’t have charitable status but they are still VAT exempt. Labour has dropped its policy to end charitable status because it has realised that it is too difficult to implement.

How well would all of the private school students fit into the state schools? Would they fit in the buildings? Would the influx make state education worse?
Parents who send their kids to private schools also pay tax that goes towards government schools.
Parents get to choose child care they should have the right to choose schools.

University should be free.

By relieving VAT on unis the state is subsidising the education of all equally. By doing so on private schools it is only subsidising the wealthy. It's obvious to anyone that the two are not the same.

It's not hypocritical its just a view you don't like.

This is the hypocrisy from Labour and everyone talking about ‘charitable status’ . The argument used to justify the move. That status is why universities don’t have VAT.

This is a misunderstanding. The absence of VAT on fees is nothing to do with charitable status. It's because the provision of education is exempt from VAT and when we were in the EU it was impossible to add VAT.

If we decide that education should no longer be exempt from VAT then it does indeed open up the question of which kinds of education should be taxed and that paves the way to the argument that tertriary education should not be exempt. But it is not to do with charitable status.

I agree. Exactly this. This is the point I’m making really. Of course universities shouldn’t have VAT added. But nor should private schools. Do it to both or neither. Be consistent otherwise, apart from sheer stupidity, the legal case is pretty dubious.

The schools can use to tax avoidance loopholes that are available if VAT is introduced, they’re probably looking into now, regrettably.

You got me!

I wonder how the anti private school people here would feel if VAT were to be levied on private tuition and extracurricular activities. Not everybody can afford those either.

No it isn’t- the two are totally different.

This has already been comprehensively aired on other threads. Most voters couldn’t care less about it. Some of us support the policy. Private school payers will object to it.

Private education is a privilege, and private schools’ charitable status is a joke.

Not the same at all. There is no choice of free university. And universities are a vehicle for social mobility, whereas private schooling reproduces inequality.

I don't see VAT on school fees as subsidising the wealthy. Those same wealthy are paying significant amounts of tax and the tax payer is ultimately funding state education.

State school is not free. Everyone who pays tax is paying for it. As someone who pays c52% tax on my earnings (when NI is factored in) I don't object to paying even more tax IF that tax is going into an efficient public sector that can demonstrate incremental improvement for the incremental tax. But the public sector is not remotely efficient and hence I suspect all it will do is push a few parents who are on the borderline to move their kids to state, with little to no change in the funding available to state schools.

In short, the policy is to win votes from those who can't access private schools. It is not a policy that will help the state education sector at all.

As far as private tuition etc is concerned, I would not have a problem with VAT on that as yes, that, too, is a privilege.

Do prices differ between universities? I.e would an ex polytechnic be cheaper to go to than an Oxbridge? I looked at the difference in the cost of an MA recently - £20,000 at Cambridge, £5,000 at a local uni.

Some places will always be more equal than others, won’t they.

So put like that, yes, I agree with the OP’s point.

Apart from the choice issue people have outlined above, some students already pay a premium for their educations via the student loan system which is less a loan and more a graduate tax.

I guess the upside for private school parents who are facing paying VAT is that they're the demographic more likely to be able to pay their children's uni fees up front and therefore save their kids the grad tax.

I'd favour a different funding system for universities and certainly a better and more equitable system for student contributions.

Exactly!

I agree, but there's so much hypocrisy on this issue from the wealthy people who have got their children a good education by various means, mostly involving spending money and social capital, but not, horror of horrors, paying fees. Buying or renting a very expensive house next door to an oversubscribed comp is not an option open to many people.

Isn't the public good argument also totally different with universities than with private schools?

Ie The public benefits that universities provide - via research and via a tertiary educated workforce to provide the skills our economy needs - are remarkably different from the public benefits provided by private education?

It seems quite illogical to lump them together except as a surface debating point.

This absolutely is envy politics and while the additional tax it will raise will be a drop in the ocean of the overall education budget its impact will mostly be felt by those children who would otherwise have attended the very good local state comp. Parents who can no longer afford private education will just start taking up spaces in the good local state schools instead and the kids from lower income families will lose out.

I send my child to a private school because she is deaf and the smaller class sizes offered by her school help her to fully access the curriculum. Her school costs me more than my mortgage because I made the decision to sacrifice a bigger home and other luxuries for her education - if I am unable to afford her school fees as a result of this policy I will use the £2k a month I would otherwise have paid in fees and apply it against buying a house next door to the best state school in the county as well as private tuition and extra curricular activities. I am currently unable to access local authority funding to pay for adjustments that are needed for my child’s disability because she goes to a private school but as soon as she goes to a state school I won’t have to buy those services in and the local authority will have to pay for them. All in all I reckon I reckon I will come out evens.

Labour’s policy used to be Education, Education, Education but they have lost their way and are now looking for quick votes with a divisive policy that will do more harm than good to the less fortunate in our society.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr @Octonaut4Life
There are lots of private tertiary institutions that confer degrees

yocket.com/blog/private-universities-in-uk

Only 7% of the population use private schools but every single one of those 7% are on Mumsnet

I actually believe that universities should go back to zero tuition fees. They saddle the majority of students today with huge debts, that most have little chance of paying off, for the rest of their lives. As Chomsky said “Tuition fee increases are a ‘disciplinary technique,’ and, by the time students graduate, they are not only loaded with debt, but have also internalized the ‘disciplinarian culture.’ This makes them efficient components of the consumer economy.”. This only serves to prevent social mobility.

For Labour to promote their policy of abolishing VAT ON private school fees is not only hypocritical (and frankly, inconsequential to the desperate situation in many state schools), it is a smokescreen for the real problems.

1. No investment in education (bad school, low morale, no facilities, stopping much sports art and drama etc)
2. Lifelong debts after University, for many.

Parents who send their kids to private schools also pay tax that goes towards government schools
Likewise parents who send their kids to government schools are subsidising those private schools, through the taxes state parents pay, but that private schools don't.

Honestly if you can't afford it anymore then send your kids to state school and use what you where paying in fees pay for tutors or extra sport or whatever.

Kids adjust