Naming convicted killers - Brianna

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

...Ghey case. In favour of or against as it impacts their rehabilitation? I'm in favour of it - if you've committed a heinous crime you sign away all your rights to be protected in my opinion - what comes your way and being ousted is part of your lot.... I'm not talking about self defence type, rather premeditated and horribly evil crimes. But I think this should be a consistent theme and not just when some judges decide to....at the momentvits not consistent practice.
Aibu to think it's right to name and shame?

Children are protected from the consequences of their actions for a reason - they are children and we recognise they are not fully responsible for what they do. It is the fact that they are children that makes them notorious, there are adults who have committed crimes just as horrendous but who have not got the publicity that this crime has. So, even though there are no reporting restrictions, they are more or less anonymous because the press hasn't latched on to them.

What value does naming them have, apart from selling news for 24/48 hours?

When they are released they will be given new identities.

They are legally children so I don't believe they should have been named until they are adults, if then.

What they did was appalling but blaming and hounding their families won't change what happened.

Ah yes, because there weren’t any murders back in your day when everyone was perfectly disciplined?
Or, just maybe, the prevalence of 24/7 rolling news and social media nowadays just means you hear about it far more than you used to. Children “like this” have always existed, you just may not have been as aware of it.

The families are secondary victims in all this. It must be devastating for them and allegedly Jenkinson's family have already been subject to death threats. Justice Yip made specific reference to the fact that she'd deferred naming the defendants until sentencing to allow all involved more time to adjust to the situation. She did, however, point out that harm to the families was not a factor she was able to take into consideration inline with the law.

As for Ratcliffe's father making his own column inches elsewhere, it does beg the question of what kind of home his son came from and what might possibly have turned him into the youth capable of doing what he did. The mother must be in a terrible place right now, and I do really feel for her.

For Brianna's mother to beg for restraint and compassion for those families, having sat through four weeks of the harrowing detail of what happened to her own daughter, speaks volumes about her dignity, strength and grace of character. She has to be an incredible woman.

I very much doubt they feel shame.

Couldn't care less about the individuals who commit murder, but I very much feel for their relatives.

Not this specific case, but if they had children etc. The stigma that would be attached. It is really not fair that the innocent family members suffer.

Some people are born as psychopaths. It's not always anything to do with their background.

It doesn’t seem to matter to me. Anyone who knows them, knows what they’ve done. I doubt the names came as a surprise to any of their friends/families/aquaintances. Anyone who doesn’t know them, well, you still don’t.

Poor Brianna was killed by these two hideous creatures, name and shame I say, regardless of age. You commit murder, you waive the right to anonymity in my view.

Possibly the most sensible thing I've read on mn lately. No child is born transphobic, it's learned behaviour.

Agree - neither should ever be released no matter how much it is claimed the are fully rehabilitated in 20/30+ years time. They are psychopaths and in my view will never be safe being released. It would be an incredibly dangerous decision to let these animals wander free in their 30’s or 40’s.

The country needs a vote on the death penalty and I would support that for these two. They cannot be viewed the same way that we view normal 16 year olds (despite what the laws say). They are just a few years older than my kids and I have no hesitation in saying that they don’t deserve to live for what they have done.

I 100% agree with the death penalty. Many many years ago, there were a couple of people wrongly hanged for crimes they didn't commit, which was absolutely tragic.
But in this day and age, when we have the ability of pinpoint DNA profiling and can prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt, then to me, it should be a life for a life. No question. And all the people that bang on about "human rights"? Where were the victims human rights? Why should we have prisons full of murderers, some of whom cannot be released because they will remain a danger to the public? Prison isn't prison, it's a cushy number! It's basically full of prisoners sticking two fingers up at everyone on the outside! Three square meals a day, don't have to do anything you don't want to and that includes any kinds of therapy, believe it or not! Having worked with offenders, I know this to be true and a lot of them are smug about it.
Prisons are under run and overcrowded, this would solve a lot of problems all round, however unpopular an opinion it is. I bet that potential murderers would think twice about killing people if they had the threat of their own death as a consequence of being caught. There is absolutely no deterrent to committing crime in this country, we need something.

Apart from Mary Bell.there were no major crimes of children killing children like there are today.

Social Media, children being given phones to use as they wish, lack of parental control and discipline are at rock bottom.
It just gets worse and worse.
There isn't a week goes by without a stabbing happening either.

Shows how bad the discipline is now. They were allowed to sit and doodle, and read puzzle books during sentencing, not told to sit and straight and listen.
How much lower can we go? No respect no discipline.

Do you remember when parents wanted their kids to have a phone so they could phone them on the way to school etc and make sure they were safe etc. Perhaps a little payg phone.
Now parents have to buy phones that are capable of watching anything on the Internet, and they take no interest in what's going on even though they are paying for it?
Remember when they advised the family computer to be in the downstairs room so parents could at least be aware and be in the same room?
What happened to that?

Nowdays kids are in their rooms doing exactly what they want and viewing anything they want and messaging everybody while no doubt demanding the latest I phone etc.
It's dreadful. So glad I was born when I was.
You really have to ask should there be an age limit on a phone and all that it can access?
The mobile phone companies couldn't give a shit only interested in making money.

That's ridiculous; of course Brianna's parents knew who the killers were - they were in court.

There have been more than I realised.

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/articles/uks-scariest-underage-killers

International list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_killers

And plausibly a few "deaths by misadventure" while playing with friends etc. weren't. And, tbh, in some countries with readier access to weapons, some 'accidental discharges' might not have been.

In 10 years' time there would've been a BBC drama about them and their crime.

What do you mean there would have been? Do you mean there will be?

I am unsure how I feel about naming them.

I'm not sure what is to be gained when they are locked away for 20 years, other than the other inmates knowing. And if they ever get out they'll have new identities anyway.

The families lives will be ruined by it. While I don't hold as much sympathy for them as I do Brianna's family, obviously, I do feel for them.

There have been numerous debates on MN regarding checking teens/kids phones and messages and on reading our kids diaries etc. I admit I DO check my kids rooms and phones... (Eek) the threads on here have all mostly been "I wouldn't dare invade my kids privacy" type views. Ive felt like a bad parent at times .. now people are kind of suggesting parents SHOULD have been "snooping" and known their daughter was watching stuff, messaging, writing notes etc.... maybe they had an idea... But nobody can possibly seriously accurately predict their baby will grow up to be a cold blooded murderer and somehow step in and stop that.

in favour name and shame

@MoonWoman69 modern science absolutely does not allow cases do be proved 100% most of the time. Often they give an indication or a very clear probability that someone is linked to a crime scene. They are not definitive proof. Add in contamination, human error etc. On top of that, 'expert witnesses' in trials are often utterly dubious - this is a problem which is only just coming to light but it's not getting a lot of public attention.

Look even at the 'shaken baby' cases. Experts were so, so sure of themselves. Citing scientific statistics which seemed to prove people must be guilty. It was all later disproven science. This stuff happens a lot, in all manner of cases

The killers are in jail, by the time they are released they may not be at the top of peoples consciousness any more and may well be given new identities. The people who will suffer now are the people who share their names, and may well have to move or change names.

Real life crime is regularly dramatised now.

So my point is that by the time the poster claims that they'd be forgotten about, there would likely to have been a dramatisation of it and more notoriety and fame garnered from that.

It's well known that prisoners enjoy watching the dramatisations of themselves on TV whilst in prison.

I'm sure there's probably a TV writer already coming up with the script.

James Bulger's killers were named but the annoying thing is they were so young at the time that you wouldn't have recognized them when they were released probably. That's the downside , I wish they had been older and so they would have been recognisable to everyone when they got out and their lives would have been hell, rightly so.

@PastIsAnotherCountry that is a scary link. Some I remember, some I dont. Which in itself feels shocking. And that does not include perpetrators of recent stabbings.

It's very easy to find their names NOW via social media etc. but in 10, 20 years a lot of that would be deleted, or just overwhelmed by the huge amount of new stuff created daily. So the argument is more that at the time they come to be released, if the names (and, as a result, photos) hadn't been published they would be buried maybe 30 pages back in google on an archived x thread, whereas now they will likely be the top search for the rest of their lives.

I'm against because if released they will almost definitely be given new names anyway, whereas their families, including innocent siblings etc. will be linked to them for the rest of their lives.