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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Naming convicted killers - Brianna

355 replies

Noangelbuthavingfun · 02/02/2024 07:39

...Ghey case. In favour of or against as it impacts their rehabilitation? I'm in favour of it - if you've committed a heinous crime you sign away all your rights to be protected in my opinion - what comes your way and being ousted is part of your lot.... I'm not talking about self defence type, rather premeditated and horribly evil crimes. But I think this should be a consistent theme and not just when some judges decide to....at the momentvits not consistent practice.
Aibu to think it's right to name and shame?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MeMySonAnd1 · 02/02/2024 09:00

Pigeonqueen · 02/02/2024 08:55

It makes no difference to their rehabilitation to be honest either way. If they decide to release them and give them new identities they’ll never be found - Robert Thompson in the James Bulger case is a good example of this.

True.

But just read in the BBC website that the prosecutor in the James Bulger’s case mentioned that the main benefit of naming them is that people can get more details on how they come to be that bad for this crime to happen and reflect on whether any of their children could be on route to become a perpetrator and if so, help them change the course.

Fizbosshoes · 02/02/2024 09:13

I imagine they're known in the local community, but I'm not sure what difference it is to the wider public if they're named.
However as pp have said it will be difficult for their families. If the perpetrators are named, I assume that will give the tabloid press the green light for digging up all sorts on their family, potentially trying to get comment from school, friends and publishing pics, speculating why they have turned into killers etc.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/02/2024 09:16

If the perpetrators are named, I assume that will give the tabloid press the green light for digging up all sorts on their family, potentially trying to get comment from school, friends and publishing pics, speculating why they have turned into killers etc.

I imagine they have this ready to go. It's not hard to find out their names.

LakeTiticaca · 02/02/2024 10:10

Everyone in Warrington will already know who they are. I believe they should be named. Denise Bulger was interviewed national news last night and she put a very good angle on it . She believes they must be named as you can't tell half a story. The public are entitled to know the whole story.
I agree with her

Flickersy · 02/02/2024 10:17

The public are entitled to know the whole story.

No we're really not.

What you mean is the public are nosy bastards and think they're entitled to the full story, which they'll claim some noble motivation for but what they really want is someone to throw proverbial rotten fruit at target their anger at.

Iguessyourestuckwithme · 02/02/2024 10:24

I know the name of the person who murdered my family member. I know where his family live.

I don't really care if anyone else knows.

Laiste · 02/02/2024 10:26

Bargello · 02/02/2024 08:16

Also the argument about the families of the two people convicted - the names being released is not going to make any difference to them as everyone in the local community will know exactly who they are already.

This, plus, maybe The Effect My Deeds Will Have On My Family might be something potential wrong do'ers should be thinking about ?! Maybe it acts as a deterrent ?

The knock on effect for disgusting crimes is sadly for the whole community.

I don't think putting some kind of padding around criminals so that no one knows who they are, where they came from or WHO they came from does any good at all.

Parade them through the bloody streets i say! Though i do know i'm in a minority.

KreedKafer · 02/02/2024 10:28

I used to work in the justice system and and my job was liaising and briefing the media on high profile cases, so I've got a bit of experience in this area. I can see both sides of the argument for naming and not naming, but on the whole, I think we have the balance about right in England when it comes to the way we handle child prosecutions generally. I have managed media relations around a case where a child murdered another child and certainly got a crash course in every ethical and legal dilemma that this entails.

Ultimately, though, I think it's probably right that they are named. Not because I think the subsequent furore will be even remotely edifying - it won't, it will be awful - but for purely practical reasons, it simply doesn't make a whole lot of material difference.

Firstly - the media, of course, do already know the murderers' names - there will have been journalists in court reporting on the trial. So if they want to start digging around for info on their families etc, they'll have already done that. There's a lot of information they could plausibly share about them and their families even without naming them.

Secondly - everyone local to the case (neighbours, classmates, friends etc) will also obviously know their names too. If the police announce that a child has been charged with murder, and a child of that age and gender then suddenly disappears from school and the family home for many months, it's not hard to work out that they're the suspect.

Thirdly, when the perpetrators are released, they will get new identities regardless of whether they're named publicly anyway. Their families will also suffer and likely need protection whether they are named or not.

Fourthly, while it is certainly true that the families of underage murderers will suffer from being known as such, this is also the case for the families for the case of adult murderers - but we routinely name adult murderers. So I think if we don't name a child who has committed murder because we need to protect their parents and siblings, in the interests of fairness we would also have to stop naming adult murderers too, for exactly the same reason. The younger sibling of a teenage murderer will absolutely have a hard time and will likely need to relocate and change their name and all sorts of other things - but this is also true of, eg, the younger sibling (or child) of an adult murderer. If we protect one set of families and throw the other set to the wolves, then the system is fundamentally unfair.

LakeTiticaca · 02/02/2024 10:40

Flickersy · 02/02/2024 10:17

The public are entitled to know the whole story.

No we're really not.

What you mean is the public are nosy bastards and think they're entitled to the full story, which they'll claim some noble motivation for but what they really want is someone to throw proverbial rotten fruit at target their anger at.

You mean 2 teenagers who plotted to lure their "friend" into a park and murder them in cold blood for kicks?
What do you think they deserve, a pat on the back?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/02/2024 10:42

They've now been named as the order has been lifted.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/brianna-ghey-sentencing-live-updates-28552466

Flickersy · 02/02/2024 10:42

LakeTiticaca · 02/02/2024 10:40

You mean 2 teenagers who plotted to lure their "friend" into a park and murder them in cold blood for kicks?
What do you think they deserve, a pat on the back?

They deserve a custodial sentence. Which is almost certainly what they're getting.

mitogoshi · 02/02/2024 10:47

At 16, yes they should be named. The younger the perpetrator is the harder the decision as you have to question whether they have the capacity to be guilty, that is did they understand what they did was wrong and was likely to have the outcome it did, also was it undiagnosed schizophrenia for instance. It needs to be on a case by case basis

Psychoticbreak · 02/02/2024 10:50

Named and photos all been shared all over sky etc now.

OneTC · 02/02/2024 10:56

I think in general the court system should be more anonymous, I think "Mr scumbag of Dean Rd, Brighton" type reporting shouldn't be allowed to protect mrs scumbag and scumbag jr.

When people are convicted their naming should be a case by case basis where there is demonstrable public interest and not a standard part of the procedure. Demonstrable public interest being a possibility of more victims or similar.

I think court and prison used solely as punishment rather than intervention and rehabilitation is unproductive and I think that public shaming is part of that punishment.

However, what makes it to national press is not the bread and butter of the court system, those cases are generally exceptional for one reason or another and have captured the public interest, albeit frequently just in a morbid way.

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/02/2024 10:57

No because reprisals could be made against the families.

Dothefandangos · 02/02/2024 10:57

What was the point? So we can all pile on and say how awful there were?

Dothefandangos · 02/02/2024 10:59

‘You mean 2 teenagers who plotted to lure their "friend" into a park and murder them in cold blood for kicks?
What do you think they deserve, a pat on the back?’

A custodial sentence and help for mental health. Which they will get. Or do we think that they’re just born ‘evil’ in some way?

LutonBeds · 02/02/2024 11:00

There are many precedents to this. The case in the link is one I remember from when I was younger, the killer was 12! Police initially thought it was an adult male as the murder was so brutal and sexually-motivated. Thank God, the killer is still locked up. Absolutely they should be named, if that’s what you’re capable of when not/barely a teenager what will you be like as an adult?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Carr#:~:text=Sharon%20Louise%20Carr%20(born%201979,from%20a%20nightclub%20in%20Camberley.

Sharon Carr - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Carr#:~:text=Sharon%20Louise%20Carr%20(born%201979,from%20a%20nightclub%20in%20Camberley.

Blueeyedmale · 02/02/2024 11:00

To be honest there names have been all over social media for the last few months and nothing has been done to remove the names so I don't think today's naming will come as a surprise to many.

My thoughts are with briannas family and freinds.

JudgeJ · 02/02/2024 11:01

SinnerBoy · 02/02/2024 08:00

Yes, I see that. At high school, there were 3 brothers and sisters whose dad murdered someone. They ended up leaving the area, because of the abuse and bullying they got, despite them being entirely innocent.

Then maybe their murdering father should have thought about them before he murdered.

Blueeyedmale · 02/02/2024 11:05

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/02/2024 10:57

No because reprisals could be made against the families.

This has already happened on social media around Christmas they were all having a go at the girls grandad which I challenged people on.the family are not to blame and I hope they are left alone.

They both did a vile murder of an innocent person and like I said the family are not to blame,but as parents we are told to check our children's devices on a regular basis so I think their does need to be an investigation into how they were able to access the dark Web so easily.

JudgeJ · 02/02/2024 11:06

SoupDragon · 02/02/2024 07:51

I don't see what purpose it serves. Especially when they were 15. It punishes their family too for a start.

What's their age got to do with it? They are murderers, the protection of the public by their incarceration is more important than anything else. Nor should murderers, whatever their age when they murdered, have any form of lifetime anonymity paid for by me and the rest of the tax payers.

YeahBrackie · 02/02/2024 11:09

Blueeyedmale · 02/02/2024 11:05

This has already happened on social media around Christmas they were all having a go at the girls grandad which I challenged people on.the family are not to blame and I hope they are left alone.

They both did a vile murder of an innocent person and like I said the family are not to blame,but as parents we are told to check our children's devices on a regular basis so I think their does need to be an investigation into how they were able to access the dark Web so easily.

They were 15 though. From what age should we stop checking our children's phones?

Blueeyedmale · 02/02/2024 11:11

15 year old children yes you should be checking your child's device I would say until at least 16