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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Asking employer to cover childcare costs

881 replies

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 05:33

I’ve been asked to go on a business trip for a week, is it unreasonable to ask the company to pay the incremental childcare costs?

OP posts:
MsFogi · 01/02/2024 17:35

You are responsible for childcare, not your employer - regardless of how much inconvenience this causes your DH. Just like his employer won't expect to think about/pay for the childcare situation if he travels. You have the choice to either travel because it is part of the job and dealing with the childcare/situation is your problem not your employer's or decline to travel. Luckily you have a DH so this hopefully makes it easier than if you were alone.
In the same way if you get a dog you won't be able to claim for extra hours of doggy daycare if you travel.

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 17:35

Lol not pot stirring it’s just difficult to engage when multiple posters are coming at me for my outrageous suggestion that I felt it unfair I’d be expected to be out of pocket, I was a traitor to women in the workplace, have a shit husband and should suck it up

OP posts:
IncompleteSenten · 01/02/2024 17:36

GuinnessBird · 01/02/2024 17:33

What do the naysayers think now, well done OP.

I'm surprised, tbh. There aren't that many employers who would do that and i genuinely didnt think their employer would help out or that its something employees should expect.

But I'm happy for the op that they've agreed this extra for her because it mattered to her and only a twat would be cross someone else got a work benefit that made their life easier.

EarringsandLipstick · 01/02/2024 17:38

GuinnessBird · 01/02/2024 17:33

What do the naysayers think now, well done OP.

Who would they be?

Given that pretty much everyone offered OP the advice that she seems to have actually taken, and suggested the outcome that she got - she didn't get childcare paid, she did get an adjustment to her daily rate to cover such costs, which came about from a rational conversation between OP and her employer.

EarthaKittsVoice · 01/02/2024 17:40

WhenWereYouUnderMe · 01/02/2024 14:29

@EarthaKittsVoice you said parents have rights but women don't want to claim them. This is not one of those rights...

Yes - rights within the workplace. An employee can put forward a flexible working request - what that details is down to the individual ie location/hours etc.

The OP has been requested to work abroad for 10 days in what seems to be the 1st time in 8 years. It is within their rights to request reimbursement for additional costs.

We all have rights in the workplace - parent or not.

But I do think we are still quite behind Europe RE womens rights in the workplace. From this thread I see why and it's mostly due to mindset/beliefs.

I wonder what people on this thread would think if their employer started a Creche at their place of work. It's a thing in Europe....

EarringsandLipstick · 01/02/2024 17:40

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 17:35

Lol not pot stirring it’s just difficult to engage when multiple posters are coming at me for my outrageous suggestion that I felt it unfair I’d be expected to be out of pocket, I was a traitor to women in the workplace, have a shit husband and should suck it up

Hmm.

Some posters were a bit hyperbolic, for sure. Not many. Most people made the reasonable suggestion that your H should actually faciliate this travel, and look after his child (that's not calling him 'shit').

You didn't engage, full stop.

You got the advice you seem to have employed very early on in the thread and ignored it, in terms of your responses.

It's great, genuinely, that your employer responded well. It doesn't address the core point that they don't have to do this, and should they have said no to additional payments, it would be back to you deciding if you were prepared to travel in these circumstances or not. They were never UR for asking or having an expectation that your contract covered this.

CantFindTheBeat · 01/02/2024 17:41

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 17:26

So this morning I stormed into my managers office with my head of entitlement held high and demanded my employer paid my childcare, my manager fired me on the spot and shouted get out my office you stupid woman.

No, in reality the company have agreed to pay me an additional day rate for my time on the trip which is above necessary to offset any additional childcare.

Bloody brilliant.

Well done OP and well done employer.

GuinnessBird · 01/02/2024 17:42

EarringsandLipstick · 01/02/2024 17:38

Who would they be?

Given that pretty much everyone offered OP the advice that she seems to have actually taken, and suggested the outcome that she got - she didn't get childcare paid, she did get an adjustment to her daily rate to cover such costs, which came about from a rational conversation between OP and her employer.

A lot were basically saying that OP should think herself lucky and that the company wouldn't pay, also that OP should have thought about this eventuality when applying for the job eight years ago.

thaegumathteth · 01/02/2024 17:44

😂 of course. It's almost like they didn't reimburse you for childcare like everyone said they wouldn't .....

Never mind - your dh must be happy he doesn't have to make any effort

girlswillbegirls · 01/02/2024 17:46

nohopehere · 01/02/2024 05:54

I can see where they are coming from.

This is the sort of thing that can put employers off wanting to take on women with children.

A man wouldn't be asking for childcare costs to be paid.

I completely agree. A man would never ask to cover childcare costs while travelling and they have children too. That's why they end up promoted more. They just go for opportunities.

GuinnessBird · 01/02/2024 17:47

thaegumathteth · 01/02/2024 17:44

😂 of course. It's almost like they didn't reimburse you for childcare like everyone said they wouldn't .....

Never mind - your dh must be happy he doesn't have to make any effort

The husband also works, why should he have to change his work plans?

EarringsandLipstick · 01/02/2024 17:49

A lot were basically saying that OP should think herself lucky and that the company wouldn't pay, also that OP should have thought about this eventuality when applying for the job eight years ago.

That's not being a naysayer though.

It's true - it is a reasonable expectation of an employer, to ask an employee to
travel within the agreed parameter of their contract; it's true that when OP
took the job she may have had to have awareness that one day this could be an
issue, and she may have DC.

It wasn't OP's quest for payment that was the issue - it was her entitlement and
attitude, like: My point is I’m being asked do
something by my employer, whilst I acknowledge it’s within my contract, it’s
also not my daily role and why should I be out of pocket on their behalf?

TylaTiga · 01/02/2024 17:51

FrangipaniBlue · 01/02/2024 17:31

My point @TylaTiga was that it's those attitudes we should be challenging, not putting the blame on employers expecting women to travel as being the barrier for women returning to work!

Oh absolutely, I completely agree with the fact that that should change.

But I also think that OP had every right to ask and clearly they were happy for her to as they found a solution! But yes you are right. Sadly I think we have more chance of employers paying their staff to breathe than some men changing their attitudes 🙄

Bubble2024 · 01/02/2024 17:52

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 06:22

@Spangler son is in nursery full time, im asking for the incremental cover as I won’t be able to do drop off and pick up

What hours does he currently do and what would you be changing it to? An extra £300 for 10 days seems a lot.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 01/02/2024 18:02

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 06:30

I’m amazed at the negative response on here! Any other expense would be covered, but I guess I’m being unreasonable

I'm going to get flamed for this comparison but i do have both so here we go....

If you had a dog, would you ask for them to pay the expenses for a dog walker / kennels while you were away because your DH couldn't cope?

It's the same thing in that it's your child, it's your responsibility. If DH and our parents couldn't take leave / help / reshuffle then either I don't go or we pay for the extra childcare. And it would be the same if DH had to be away. I'd reshuffle and if I couldn't, organise extra childcare.

WombatChocolate · 01/02/2024 18:09

The employees domestic arrangements aren’t the concern of the employer - in terms of whether someone has a partner or is a single parent. It cannot be expected that every worker has a partner who can pick up significant slack, because they simply don’t. It also can’t be assumed that every worker is child free or has no other commitments in their life.

I think that when a long trip comes up like this one, having a conversation as OP has is the right approach. Asking for child cost repayments explicitly isn’t probably the best way. As others said, stating that the long trip away would incur significant expenses so you’d like an additional rate of pay for that period in acknowledgement of them is reasonable..and something firms can swallow more easily without setting a orecedent for covering childcare costs.

I think firms are also more likely to be willing to do this if the worker rarely travels for work, isn’t extremely well paid and if the trip is long. They might expect the extremely well paid worker who travels a lot and goes in short trips to have essentially built such childcare into their ‘normal’ routine. For me, this trip is outside of the OP’s normal routine and it’s length would have imposed significant costs.

Glad a sensible solution has been found. And I think that those who are sure such an arrangement wouldn’t be considered at their work, it would be worth having a conversation about if something similar arose. Her ask wasn’t unreasonable. Expectations to travel might be part of the job, but some travelling is much more onerous and costly than others, and there’s no reason why firms shouldn’t be considering the full costs an employee faces. Unfortunatley, it will tend to be women who ask for this kind of thing,as it’s more likely to be they who don’t have access to free childcare. Men asked to travel like this on one long and unusual trip, somehow don’t seem to have to use £300 of childcare to cover wraparound. Somehow they seem o have someone who will step up and cover the childcare, possibly at financial cost to themselves. Perhaos it would be good if more men started to make employers aware of these costs too and ask for something similar to Op has. But unfortunately, this seems unlikely to happen. Instead, we get the situation where a woman asking for something not unreasonable is seen to be reflective of women employees being more demanding or less flexible or more costly than men. And this is amongst a forum of mostly women. So many told her to just suck it up.

I agree that it’s disappointing if a DH can’t pick up some of the slack. Women in this thread were disappointed because they know that in similar situations reversed, they do pick up the slack, even whilst working. But I actually don’t think it’s the key point. OP could have been a single parent with no-one around to help. Why should an extra work demand (which potentially could be fulfilled by another worker anyway) impose a financial cost on the worker of several hundred pounds? Quite simply, firms wanting people to engage in long travel, or that which isn’t typical for their work need a system for employees to identify and claim for costs - these could be a range of things - and if this is a general claiming thing, it doesn’t just have to be about childcare.

Families where the woman is picking up the slack for men’s travel, especially where there is a financial cost (could be taking holiday from work to cover their travel, worsening their own career prospects by leaving early to over the childcare etc) need to be more prepared to ask the employer to pay up for the extra time and costs incurred. Few people have a career so well paid that one adult is a SAHP and is entirely free to pick-up slack and accommodate lots of travelling without any financial impact on the family. Those workers who earn enough to support themselves and their kids and a SAHP are very well paid,so perhaps extra won’t be forthcoming at that level. But what is that level? Far more workers are well paid but still need 2 people to work full time. Why should the occasional demands of work result in huge financial costs upon the family? Work should be paying. Employees should be asking for that payment so it’s not seen as something whiny women do.

EarthaKittsVoice · 01/02/2024 18:13

moomoomoo27 · 01/02/2024 16:59

Effectively it's like asking for a bonus or pay rise, so with that logic it should be paid on the basis that the work the OP does deserves that extra money and should be negotiated on that basis.

The employee's home life or situation is nothing to do with the employer. I'm an employer and I pay people what they're worth for their work. It's not my responsibility to manage their family's finances, choices or lifestyles. The OP has signed a contract stating travel when required; they could have chosen to negotiate childcare costs before signing.

I wouldn't agree to something presented in this way because I would be thinking about my staff that don't have children and it being unfair to them. People with kids cost me more as an employer by default, even without asking for extra, and I already absorb those costs without complaint. However, everyone is on an equal footing when they can pitch for a payrise with evidence from their own work, which is what we encourage.

Edited

I slightly disagree. An employees home life does have an impact on their employer. This could be location, care duties (children/foster/adoption/elderly), finances, health etc. An employer also has a duty of care to their employees - a far reaching one nowadays which is why a lot of employers have an Employee Assistance Program for mental health, and in house mental health ambassadors. We also have financial courses to keep us informed (I am aware this isn't in place everywhere). And we have discounted gym memberships. So in line with these types of things although my employer is not responsible for my lifestyle they are fully aware it may impact them and they have put things in place to help safeguard them and me.

Littlegoth · 01/02/2024 18:13

lifeispainauchocolat · 01/02/2024 17:18

They won't. If she refuses to do her job (and she says travel is part of her job and written into her contract) then, long-term, they'll just find a way get to get rid of her.

And could find themselves at tribunal facing a sex discrimination/unfair dismissal case. Again many contracts state some travel required, it’s about whether 10 days is reasonable, which if she isn’t needed then it probably isn’t reasonable.

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 18:17

@EarringsandLipstick well that sense of entitlement you hate so much has just earnt me an additional 2.5k

OP posts:
Brefugee · 01/02/2024 18:18

WhenWereYouUnderMe · 01/02/2024 17:31

But @Brefugee it would be a terrible recruitment tool if they offered this on a case by case basis. Either it happens or it doesn't, and no employer is going to blanket pay for childcare when their employees travel.

well it's what my previous employer did - everyone (as another pp here explained) negotiated things into their contract that they felt they wanted to have put in a contract.

One of my colleagues did compressed hours, one never worked wednesdays, another was allowed to take 5 of her 6 weeks leave in a block, every year, to visit family in NZ. Another negotiated really flexible working for a while while one of her children was in hospital with an, unfortunately, fatal form of cancer. It would be equally easy to negotiate getting extra money, in one way or another, for extra costs for childcare. If your skills are in demand, it isn't a massive issue.

Abbymom · 01/02/2024 18:21

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 17:26

So this morning I stormed into my managers office with my head of entitlement held high and demanded my employer paid my childcare, my manager fired me on the spot and shouted get out my office you stupid woman.

No, in reality the company have agreed to pay me an additional day rate for my time on the trip which is above necessary to offset any additional childcare.

Fantastic OP! Good for you!

Gagagardener · 01/02/2024 18:22

@Totupthenumberspls well done! I am very pleased for you. I hope you have a splendid time, that you don't miss your family too much - and that all runs smoothly at home in your absence.

surreygirl1987 · 01/02/2024 18:23

*This is the sort of thing that can put employers off wanting to take on women with children.

A man wouldn't be asking for childcare costs to be paid*

I was thinking the same thing actually.

IcedPurple · 01/02/2024 18:26

Totupthenumberspls · 01/02/2024 05:36

But I don’t need to be there….why should I pay an additional ~£300 in childcare

Presumably your employer believes you need to be there, or otherwise they wouldn't be sending you.

Basilthymerosemary · 01/02/2024 18:34

Good for up OP- glad your employer is increasing your day rate.

However- your attitude on the thread is confrontational and simply put sucks arse and I would not want you in my workplace.

Swipe left for the next trending thread