To think my friend needs to get over her divorce now?

[Whattodo24xx]

Ok, I know that sounds incredibly harsh but I'm at my wits end with my friend & it's beginning to affect how I feel about her...

For context, we've been friends since we were both 11, (38 now) and we've shared loads together. Including obviously supporting her when she split from her husband of 11 years 5 years ago. It was super tough for her at the time understandably and I was there for her every step of the way. She has a DD who's coming up for 10 now, whilst working full time and is a great mum. Ex still sees DD regularly but they don't have a good relationship which makes things harder.

The trouble is, my friend over the past 5 years has the attitude of 'woe is me' constantly 24/7 and it's so draining. Whilst I understand the struggles of being a single mum for the majority of the time, it's all she talks about like the entire world is out to get her. She doesn't have enough free time, she doesn't have enough money to do anything, she doesn't have this, she doesn't have that etc. Her ex is getting remarried this year and this has sparked a fresh set of hatred towards him that he's a dead beat, he should pay her more money (he pays her £465 pcm), he's a narcissist. Nothing is ever good enough and I just wish she would see how far she's come and what a wonderful life she does actually have. She has an amazing daughter, a house she owns outright with no mortgage and that her ex has no claim on, a decent career, she's a beautiful lady too, but she's blinded by the mindsight that is 'woe is me'.

I don't know how to approach this with her now, and I understand the transition period was always going to be hard, but 5 years of this attitude and it's beginning to take a toll on our relationship. We go out & do nice things together but the convo will quickly shift back to making a passing dissing comment about her ex, or how something went wrong in the house she had to pay for herself as she has no help etc etc. The thing is, she didn't even want to be with her ex at the end and it came to light a few weeks after he'd left she'd cheated on him anyway (which I've never criticised her for) but I do feel like she enjoyed the life she had before she divorced if that makes sense? I really have no idea how to broach this with her now...

YABU - It's hard for her
YANBU - She needs to start being happy for things she does have

Ah so what is the rule - talk about how you feel to prevent mental health crisis issues or be silent because we can't be arsed listening?

Why are you suffering silently because you daren't ask a friend for support?

The way the OP writes, I wonder whether the friend follows the 1/3 rule - the one where, if you meet 1:1, each person gets to talk for at least 1/3 of the time. It isn't a rigid rule but if it is never followed then the person who never gets to talk will get fed up.

If the OP has her own crisis, does she get to talk about it? Or does the conversation swiftly get turned back to the divorce? If so, that sounds quite miserable.

@RheaRend you're being deliberately obtuse. I have had people in my social circle who absolutely cannot stop talking about themselves. Some people really do think they have it the hardest and there is no room for anyone else. I don't owe emotional support for the rest of my life to another adult without getting anything back. So yes, self centered people who can't stop talking about themselves end up getting dropped. And OP has a choice on who she chooses to spend her free time with, she's given this woman5 years of support, time for some distance.

So as usual double standards abound here…

She’s the one who cheated and yet she’s the one trying to play the victim?

She made her decisions when she shagged someone else. If this was someone talking about their dh’s friend who had cheated and was now doing the woe is me thing people would say that it serves him right and he didn’t deserve sympathy.

Yes, affairs aren’t always black and white, but regardless of what happened and how something led to an affair, when you head down that road you do so in the knowledge that if you get found out then your life will fall apart, and the only person to blame for that is you.

If this was a man someone was posting about people would say that the woman should be happy, that she was well rid of him and that they were glad for her that she’d moved on.

I wouldn’t be pandering to this victim crap. I’m afraid I’d have to tell her to get over herself. She’s the one who is responsible for the situation she’s in, so she needs to get over herself.

@RheaRend and the rule is everyone has to find a middle ground. Being a negative drain for years is selfish.

Sit her down and tell her that life is what you make of it and her constantly moaning is only going to attract more negativity and that it's dragging you down.

Unless she lets go of the past, moves in and makes something of her life she's always going to be someone who wallows in the mud.

Professional victims are a bore.

Nope you clearly stated that because you suffer in silence you want others to. Sounds like you are one of those ppl who play the martyr and shame others who do thing differently. If you don't like helping friends then so be it, walk away.

So put up and shut up and then suffer and when you can't cope then you get blamed for not speaking up! Got it! Thanks!

Or maybe think about other people as well as yourself.

What you are describing is not someone at risk of ‘not speaking up’. It’s actually someone being totally self centred and taking advantage. To then try to weaponise mental health against people who don’t simply comply with their allocated role as listening support humans is pretty nasty.

If you actually think and behave like this, you will end up alienating friends. There has to be give and take, and the negative has to come with some positives. Otherwise, no one is going to stick around to just listen to exactly the same moans about something that happened years ago again and again.

I think it's about getting the right support - professional help might be the best thing for OP's friend.

If someone's behaviour is causing you stress and anxiety, it could be the time to reassess boundaries. A few years ago my (now ex) friend told me that he had cancelled his appointment with his therapist as he had me to talk to (at the time, I had been diagnosed with depression and was really struggling).

What is your point please, this reads like you feel the person allocated as listener has no rights, they should just take it, they don’t matter. The point being made is we all matter, and if someone abuses that, and talks to someone else negatively, to an extent it bothers them negatively they should speak up, but the negative person should absolutely recognise the listener is human, they don’t exist just to listen to the outpouring of negativity from someone else, that’s very self centred.

I had an ex-bf who would moan constantly about how shit his life was and how much he hated his parents (whom he lived with rent free and who gave him money as he didn't have a job.) Any suggestions about how he could change things were shut down, but he liked telling me how he was going to off himself. (That was fun.) Thankfully he dumped me after five months of driving me mad. I'm surprised you've put up with this for five years OP!

The OP has clearly listened and provided support for the past 5 years. It is time now for the friend to change the narrative. That can mean several things, moving on herself, getting professional help to move on ….
The unhealthy option is to think that forever more your feelings and need to talk and be a victim can go on indefinitely. It’s not unusual for the friend to feel sad, why wouldn’t she. It is however, unhealthy and unfair to spend years draining those around her.

I find that people who are emotional vampires can find that hard to comprehend- why why why can’t I talk through my feelings with people, why why why won’t they listen to me anymore. It’s because they have worn everyone out. People only have a certain reserves

Divorce is extremely traumatic and she can't help the way she feels but there does come a point where you need to stop making this everyone else's problem and if you can't do this on your own, get help for it.

If you're "stuck" with a situation to such an extent that you absolutely can't move on you get professional help. Not reasonable to turn her entire friendship group into a free therapy circle.

I think you should just be honest with her, honesty is always the best policy, but also keep in mind that I expect the remarriage has just pulled the plaster off so everything is a bit more sore now than it was.

What was her personality like before her split OP, how did she deal with difficulties in her life ? Has she always externalised her problems or is this a very different friend you find now ?
These answers would guide my reaction to her and my expectations of the outcome, if she has always been a woe is me kind of person it's going to be difficult for her to see her way out of it.
Having said that divorce is a very special kind of woe isn't it , I think it does have a burning kind of advisarial power to potentially bring out the worst in everyone . The marker I set myself was to feel neutrally about my ex and it took a long time to achieve.
It's so fantastically tempting to bring them into every discussion and vent but it is a much more fantastic feeling when you no longer feel that need, when it no longer eats away at you.
Suggest to your friend that she needs to think about her own mental well being, she owes that to herself and especially her DD. To do this she has to let go, she must practice not feeling anything one way or another. So for eg., he is getting remarried and he is extremely happy ...no impact, he is getting divorced and no longer happy ..no impact. It has to be both ways for you to be free.
She doesn't have to like her ex but she needs to practice a kind of discipline of forced neutrality until she gets there naturally. Explain to her that by doing this she isn't giving him more power or letting him off the hook but that ultimately she is giving HERSELF the power. It feels SO good to no longer care , it's amazing . When this finally happened to me I know my ex noticed because it changed the dynamic between us , I was perfectly civil even amiable but I felt this armour if neutrality around me , finally I did not care what he thought or how he felt about anything, nothing he did mattered to me and I kind of grew taller that day. I will never forget that feeling
Tell her that you have her back but she will never be really happy until she redresses this balance and that is something you care about.

My dad after losing my mum grieved of course but continued to grieve for many years after. It really helped him to move forward when I said I understood how miserable he must feel, but that he needed to try to be more positive for me as it was getting me down to see him so sad. It helped him and it helped me. And it didn`t involve saying "just pull yourself together". Maybe try a conversation on those lines?

OP you really have the patience of a saint.💐
You're right, she needs to move on from this.
Delicate convo, but maybe you could persuade her to get some counselling? This may take the pressure off you perhaps.
Also, I realise it's difficult with a young child, but she should be looking for other social outlets, maybe join a social club that meets up during a school day, or even consider a leisure course at a local college during the daytime - this will widen her social circle and enable her to move on.

Exactly this. Losing a marriage you can be a form of grief and loss, and in the same way you can hope that someone starts to rebuild and reconstruct after someone has died, there isn’t a set amount of time for how long this should take - or the extent to which someone has really got over it. Some people never do, some take ages, and even if they do they are changed. Unless you’ve been through divorce you can’t know how sad and desolate it can be and how the sadness is ongoing because it can be regularly stoked up by new events (such as an ex- remarrying or having another baby etc) even though you are trying to reconstruct your own life. Not having a mortgage sounds great but I personally know that in those first few years I’d have traded that in for the family life I’d always wanted. It’s easy to see that as a massive win but in some senses it’s the booby prize.

This friend probably does need counselling and I’m sure that setting boundaries with her would help with OP’s relationship with her (talking to her and maybe ring-fencing specific portions of time for her to talk about it) but please bear with her.

She needs to go to counselling and reframe her life. Recommending this will really help her.

I have given this advice once before and it did help, so here goes :
You tell your friend that her attitude is wearing you out, and that you would love to see some of her old sparkle again.
Then you make an agreement with her : when you are together she is allowed to spit out everything negative during exactly half an hour.

After half an hour you say : All done now! Let's park that elephant back in the hallway! Where would you like to go for lunch?
You need to stick to it! If she starts talking "woe is me" again you have to stop her and remind her she had her half-hour - and will have another half-hour at your next date!

The friend I recommended this to told me that after a while she and her children didn't need to talk about "it" anymore, they realised that they could always come back to the subject if they needed to but that it didn't need to dominate their lives.

Sounds like her Ex isn't the problem...

Whilst I understand the struggles of being a single mum

Do you though? Are you one??

She is not a child but it sounds exhausting I would have a break for a while and if she asks be honest, you can't control how she feels and shouldn't try but how she is towards you is your business