Is this child abuse?

[Hah20]

DS who is 2 years old has a habit of trying to scratch DH in the face. In the past DS has got a big reaction from him for doing this. I believe this is why DS repeats the behaviour.
Today this happened and DH pushed DS off him, he fell backwards and was very upset,bumped his head but with no lump. I just want some opinions. Was that just rubbish parenting or is this classed as physical abuse?
I am very much of the gentle parenting approach and am horrified by what happened, but not sure what to do. I told DH in no uncertain terms that what happened wasn't okay and he disappeared in a sulk for the rest of the day.so we are yet to have a proper discussion.

To coin a mumsnet phrase - 'are you on glue?'.

Your child is repeatedly scratching your husband, but you think your husband pushing him away is 'abuse'?

Good grief. Yes, DH got it a bit wrong trying to defend himself against injury. He probably feels awful about it. I cannot believe you are focusing on this instead of your child's violence. I don't remember either of my DC repeatedly scratching people's faces at that age - he needs some boundaries and fast.

Why should you have to walk away or leave a room, perhaps thats what the child wants as it's always daddy who gets it and it's more about getting mummy to himself....at nursery is the other child supposed to surrender the toy and walk away? This is not gentle parenting it's no parenting.

2 year olds go up to 35 months and can be the size of 6 year olds they can also be like cats being dunked in a bath.

@jannier if people can't physically remove a child the size of "a six year" old without pushing them so they bang their head I suggest they don't have children.

No wonder I am reading such horrific abuse stories in the UK if people are unable to distinguish between appropriate handling of children and abuse. Very sad, the fact they don't see the pure hypocrisy of pushing a toddler and wanting to prevent a physical behaviour shows me the ignorance of parenting skills.

You do realise there are safe ways to employ physically intervention skills on grown adults ? And yet a grown adult can't figure out a safe way to disengage a toddler.

Physical restraint techniques are not taught in the UK in general. You're also assuming all adults are physically fit etc ...
Obviously a normal adult can stop a normal 2 year old I'm just pointing out not everyone is average. Also sometimes things go wrong and the child could fall etc. Accidents happen.
Gentle parenting has consequences it's not let them do as they like and walk away.
Which perfect country are you from ....quoting in the UK sounds like your not?

The opening post refers to an adult male assaulting a toddler. Should the toddler be corrected yes should an adult push a two year old, no.

I didn't reference gentle parenting, I raised my children without physical chastisement ,as I was raised as was my mother and her parents. It's not a new concept. It is entirely possible to do so and produce well adjusted functioning members of society.

Members of my family had to gain physical restraint training to safeguard their ND child. In the UK a lot of your SNAs would be offered or at least are meant to be offered the training.

No I am not from the UK, I am from a country where it is illegal to chastise your children. Hence the shock at the apparent acceptance of abuse.

The lack of joined up thinking on the epidemic of violence I read about your youth and the behaviour in schools in a society that sees physical chastisement as the norm is astounding. Violence, all violence begets violence.

If you hit or push a child you are simply teaching them to repeat the action. Children mimic behaviour it's the core learning mode.
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Your son received the consequences of what he did. He knows he shouldn't be scratching people in the face. It's a valuable learning moment for him - that if he tries to scratch people in the face, bad things might happen to him in return. This isn't abuse - your husband not unreasonably didn't want to be scratched in the face or eyes and reacted instinctively. I'd be telling your son he got exactly what he deserved. The most appalling punishment would have rained down on one of my children if they had tried this. The next time your son does this it may be another child - how would you feel about that? My children did go to preschool with this horrible little girl who was known as Ella the Scratcher because any unwary child could fall prey to her. (I have changed the name.) She also slammed doors on unsuspecting children catching fingers and hands. People never invited Ella round to play for obvious reasons. There was also a biter and hitter who had to be removed as it needed a staff member shadowing him constantly to prevent him leaving teethmarks (top and bottom sets) on other children.

He is two years old.

He hasn’t received ‘valuable consequences’, he has been physically pushed by an adult who couldn’t regulate his anger and lashed out at a tiny child.

It’s abusive and aggressive behaviour.

@TheSlantedOwl I do have to admit my grandmother was prone to throwing a poker at her children if they annoyed her. They looked after her when she was old and ailing and, from all accounts, loved her deeply. The children all grew up to be productive members of society, were never in trouble with the police and were genuinely nice kind people. As far as I know, they didn't suffer from any mental health challenges. Nor were they were knifing people in the street. Makes you think doesn't it? (I hasten to add that my children grew up with central heating.)

Unless OP comes back and clarifies things, this all feels pretty pointless. There's a huge difference between a grown man shoving a toddler as hard as he can in anger, sending him flying, and instinctively pushing a toddler away to stop him from clawing your face. I suspect it was the latter, but who knows since OP seems to have abandoned the thread.

We have very few facts from what OP has actually said, but as usual MNers are very happy to start wildly filling in the blanks on their own.

Who 'instinctively' pushes a toddler away?

Most people's instinct would be to grab them and hold them at arm's length?

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿💯💯💯.

I think teaching him not to scratch people in the face for fun is a bigger priority.

I hate the phrase "gentle parenting" when its code for 'pansy parent who's too twee and oblivious to lay down rules and lets their child do what they want".

*I think teaching him not to scratch people in the face for fun is a bigger priority.

I hate the phrase "gentle parenting" when it's code for 'pansy parent who's too twee and oblivious to lay down rules and lets their child do what they want".*

Agree with this to be honest. Your husband likely just reacted in the moment.

If your child did that to another child he'd likely be pushed - he needs to learn it's not acceptable and there is consequences he won't like to doing it

I’ve read a lot about gentle parenting as DS2 has ODD and I’ve had to learn strategies that initially feel counter intuitive. You absolutely can physically intervene when a child is hitting / scratching etc, gentle parenting would not be getting up and walking away, it would be taking the child’s arms, holding them and saying this is not ok, I will not let you hurt me, but you don’t aggressively grab and you don’t shout you keep calm but you absolutely do not ignore.

im getting really fed up of people calling crappy stuff gentle parenting, gentle parenting is not that and it’s actually been incredibly helpful to me in effectively managing a child prone to aggression and disruption.

I could certainly see myself doing it, if it happened quickly and I didn't have time to think. I don't think that would make me a terrible person, just someone whose body automatically took over to prevent their eyes being scratched out.

@ZephrineDrouhin

I'm wondering what 'appalling punishment would rain down' means for a two year old

@Ted27 Well it would involve a very severe telling off, some confiscation of toys and time in their room to contemplate. It would also involve an apology to the parent. This is theoretical, of course, because the only scratchers we have ever had have four legs and a tail. My children are university graduates who at the moment are both living in the family home with us so I don't think they feel too hard done by.

Time out is not advised for this age group time in a bedroom isn't great for promoting sleep either. A firm no that hurts and remove attention tends to work

I don't know what you're reading about the UK but we no longer have a society that sees physical chastisement as the norm, not amongst anyone I know, hear of, or read about, anyway.