To have got rid of DS’s books as a consequence for messing around at bedtime?

[Italianicecream]

Since I had DD 6 months ago DH has been more involved in bedtimes, it used to be really straightforward: milk, bath, teeth and then five books. Sometimes DS would want one or two more but they were all short so I didn’t mind and he’d go to bed nicely.

Now it’s a pain. He insists he wants DH to read to him so I settle the baby while DH reads to DS, but DS just prats about, throws books on the floor, spends forever choosing a story and then doesn’t listen to it just charges around the room, etc. eventually I’m called in and he does settle but generally wants me to read the same books DH did, won’t always go to bed when told, although isn’t too bad.

When it is just me bedtimes are fine so I do think he’s playing is off against one another. I don’t think I dealt tonight well but I got so fed up with the silly behaviour I put all his books in the spare room, chose one book to read to him and said he could choose again when he started behaving. He got really upset and I don’t want to be using books as a sanction but I’m not sure what else to do! (DS is 3.)

Oh and I did walk out once telling our DS he gets no books read to him that night if he won't sit properly as it's rude to mess around while im reading.
He still loves books and it taught him to sit still.

This is so unfair. And you and DH need to knock it on the head.

I think it works best if you reduce the opportunity to mess around while meeting the needs. Choose the books earlier. 'Save' them nail bedtime. If he messes around during reading DH calmly puts the book down and tells him that book is done. If DS wants the next book, DH again calmly picks it up and starts. But he does't get the last one again.

Then you come in and do something different. In our house that was Daddy did books etc. And I came in and did two songs and cuddles. Not the same routine twice!

But calm, natural consequences, no 'punishments' and immediacy. Mess around and throw one book, that book is done. Not all the books. Not tomorrow's book. He's three. Any consequence needs to be immediate and small.

Get some new books. Maybe a nice hardback of lots of short stories and rhymes. Put the other books away (like maybe keep them on a shelf in the living room) and present him with the new book. He can still choose a story but it would be by looking through one book rather than having to choose from a pile.
I bought this book for my daughter when she was little.. It's a lovely mix of stories and rhymes.

This 100%.
He is 3 and his whole life has been turned upside down. He needs patience, understanding, reassurance and consistency. Not punishment.

Maybe he just wants extra attention from you ? Could your DH read a book to him, chat to him for a few minutes and then you come in and read a book to him - but only after DH has got him ready for bed, etc.

@porridgecake i do find those things are nice to say (his whole life hasn’t been turned upside down, by the way) but harder to do. I don’t think it’s doing him any favours to stand by and not intervene as he messes around, throws books about and exhausts us both.

Yep your DS wants your attention and this is the way he's getting it. DH needs to manage it and acknowledge his feelings, that his mum is now spending more time with the baby than him, and come up with special / fun things they can do at bedtimes

@Sunnydays0101 he will say he wants Daddy, if I go anywhere near he’ll scream no, no mummy, I want daddy.

I will then stay with the baby getting her to sleep while I can hear carnage!

Then he asks for me. I haven’t wanted to say no as I am mindful this is one of the few opportunities it’s just us, but by this time it’s pushing 730, we’re both tired, and reading the same books I just heard DH read is really annoying!

So we could and probably should tell him he gets the parent he gets! But then it means I don’t get to spend that one to one time with him. It I force myself on him he’ll just tantrum and I don’t mind riding it out but before bedtime is tricky.

I don’t doubt he wants attention but I don’t think this should mean we totally ignore bad behaviour either.

I think you and DH need to take turns at bedtime. To me it sounds like DS is lashing out to get your attention.

He used to have a nice relaxing bedtime with you, then his baby sibling came along and in his mind he’s second choice, you don’t want to spend that time with him anymore and would rather spend it with baby. He feels rejected.

He's only 3, he's tiny still. Don't use books as a punishment

The poor little lad is craving attention as his worlds just been turned upside down. In our house we’d talk about e.g do you want extra mummy time, so you want me to read to? Then after a few nights we’d start to talk about why he might want extra mummy time, plus we’d have a non-judgemental talk about the impact it has on dad when he’s destructive.

My little girls now 4.5 and is amazing with talking about her feelings and also understanding how mummy and daddy feel.

He’s only 3, he’s just articulating his feelings.

His world really hasn’t been turned upside down, and even if it had, having a cosy chat might work if you are Flop but I’m afraid it isn’t quite as effective here.

Thanks to those who did give helpful suggestions.

Flop?!

I had 3 under 4 and DH often was working nights so did on my own. I used to get all three in bed for stories after all in PJs/teeth done Either BFing the baby or letting her look at the books too. Then get the big ones into bed with books to "read" on their own. Whilst got baby into cot.

Never seen Bing Bunny? [ smile]

And so what if you’ve yo read the same book your DH just read ? What difference does it make what book you read.

It makes a difference because he is messing around.

It also means he’s having around ten books a night which clearly isn’t really sustainable.

You really don't think a new sibling arriving isn't a big upheaval for a three year old?

3 year old bedtimes can be an absolute PITA. One thing that sometimes works for me is to say ‘looks like you’re not ready for stories yet - let me know when you are ready’ and the leave the room. 3 yr old usually comes trotting out with a book a few minutes later. So good behaviour is rewarded with attention.

my DC is often worse behaved with me than he is for my DH… I’d be very upset if DH was being told on an online forum that he had a DW problem.

YABVU.

said he could choose again when he started behaving

You can’t say this to him. It doesn’t mean anything; it’s too arbitrary. It’s not clear what you expect from him.

Love the 'countdown music'.

Try to simplify and add boundaries to bedtime, don't remove having books but do give them as a consequence to behaviour. You guys are happy with 5 books and want it calm, so the approach I would go with would be to simplify it. You pick the 5 books for him then -

'It's 20 minutes until sleep time, that's enough time for 5 books but for every 4 minutes you are not in bed one book will go back on the shelf'

And if you can, alternate who does bedtimes and let him know who will be doing it, mummy today, daddy tomorrow

'I want daddy' 'and you will have him tomorrow, but it's 20 minutes now and if you want these books you need to be in bed'

Put a timer on if that helps so that he knows when the 20 mins start. You might have some tears on the first night or two but then when he knows he really won't get the 5 books (or any if he kicks up enough) unless he gets in bed and listens to them - he'll hopefully stop the silly stuff and realise he only gets what he wants by sitting and listening to the books

In terms of choosing books - fine if you offer 3 and they're picking one, but 5 just opens the can of worms up, if you're very pro choice then give him 21 mins with the first min for picking 1 book and have the other 4 pre picked?

Did you used to do bedtime before DD was born? If he wants Daddy then that's it. If he messes around then DH needs to tell him to stop or no story. If he carries on then no story.
Do both children go to bed at the same time? Could DS stay up a bit later to have some time alone with you both?